Strongest Be3 Casing

[Sandy 191]

Nice one Hilgie

[petert 588]

Peter do you have a T16 car or T16 engine that is going into a 205?

 

I'm in the process of acquiring a complete T16 drive train to put in my Mi16x4. Will the T16 transfer case bolt up to the Mi16x4 gearbox?

[Mandic 0]

AFAIK yes

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

2 Petert: yes as long as you have transfer box,propeler shaft and rear torsen off T16....

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

@Peter: I still suggest using the 405 T16 box as it is much stronger then the BE3 and allows you to run a big clutch. In a light 2WD 205 it does not make much difference if you use a BE3 box, but with 4x4 it won't spin and all power will be on the wheels. Saying that...even T16 clutches suffer from difficulties above around 350bhp in a 405T16 (see Veli Pekka on the T16 forum).

[pdd144c 0]

A big clutch isn't really necessary if it's a track biased car, a 7 1/4" twin plate item will fit on a normal 215mm flywheel. My Quatermaster one is rated to 600 lb/ft. A triple plated item is rated to 900 lb/ft if required! I will be developing my gearbox over the coming season so will hopefully find and solve all the issues. Like Wayne says heat seems to be the main issue so hopefully we can overcome this. Where is the T16 forum Hilgie? Sounds interesting.

 

Paul.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

PeterT, Have a word with Magic as he fitted a Peugeot Partner box to his 205 T16 CTI after it kept eating box's at 441bhp. I think he is finding you a lot of the T16 bits anyway

[magic 1 1 Cars]

PeterT, Have a word with Magic as he fitted a Peugeot Partner box to his 205 T16 CTI after it kept eating box's at 441bhp. I think he is finding you a lot of the T16 bits anyway

Hi Henry. Add me again please on Msn magic@205cti.de

 

 

Peter you need a T16 Gearbox or stronger Bellingo HDI or etc.

I owned in the last 6 years 5 x 405 t16 and my CTI T16. On this Engine is all about the Gearbox, a Be 3 box is good for Maximal 250nn, all over this power the gearbox will suffer until this happened.

This is a 6-speed box with Peugeot sport 3 & 4 gear setup

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you make a plan to fit a T16 with the hole drive train in a 405 mi16 , notice the standard set-up for T16, is even not strong enough.

1. Master plan on this Project Gearbox and Clutch! , Clutch must be 235mm or Custom made one, 215mm or etc will burn out when u drive 4x4.and thats very fast...

2. Engine.cooling system. (Engine coolant, Air con Coolant, Power steering Coolant, Water cooler for water air system, maybe separate the engine cooling system with the water air cooler for the engine ...I run 3 water pumps and 2 wather tanks...

 

3. Start to learn the Magneti Marelli Engine Management system.... when not this can make u a lot of headache.

 

4. The turbo is on most cars damage, the miss a support braket on the Exhaust Manifold from the Factory,so they have a crak on the housing, and very hard to find a good turbo.

nissan 180 etc will fit aswell ..

 

405 T16 gearbox Diff 3.933

 

gears with 205/45/16 on 7000 RP/M

 

1 Gear 58.02 KM/H

2 Gear 109.03 KM/H

3 Gear 158.58 KM/H

4 Gear 204,63 KM/H

5 Gear 258.31 KM/H

 

the Best power Range is from 2800 to 6000 on the T16 ,with a good set up u can reach 350 to 400NN ..so u dont need to REV up the car , when i was you i fit the T16 Box and dont make it shorter

 

 

 

Regards Magic

Edited August 12, 2007 by magic

[petert 588]

I guess with the 3.933:1 cwp, on paper the gear ratios are less than inspiring:

3.417

1.818 47%

1.250 31%

0.969 23%

0.767 21%

 

Particularly the huge gap (47%) between 1st and 2nd. This huge gap also exists on the Mi16x4. It's a pain, particularly when starting off up hills. You have to rev it hard to avoid bogging down on the change to second. I was hoping to make something a little closer. It also seems over geared. 250km/h might be ok on the autobahn, but I'd get locked up in Aus. Why not drop it down to 220 max. and enjoy the extra acceleration? I know it's possible to fit a BE3 cwp to a GTi180, which I believe is also an ML? Or are they simply not strong enough?

 

I have an Mi16 Haltech harness Magic. I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation.

[magic 1 1 Cars]

I guess with the 3.933:1 cwp, on paper the gear ratios are less than inspiring:

3.417

1.818 47%

1.250 31%

0.969 23%

0.767 21%

 

Particularly the huge gap (47%) between 1st and 2nd. This huge gap also exists on the Mi16x4. It's a pain, particularly when starting off up hills. You have to rev it hard to avoid bogging down on the change to second. I was hoping to make something a little closer. It also seems over geared. 250km/h might be ok on the autobahn, but I'd get locked up in Aus. Why not drop it down to 220 max. and enjoy the extra acceleration? I know it's possible to fit a BE3 cwp to a GTi180, which I believe is also an ML? Or are they simply not strong enough?

 

I have an Mi16 Haltech harness Magic. I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation.

 

Peter

The T16 dont runs over boost in the 1 Gear means maximal boost 1,1 bar not 1,3 bar. For good Reasons, its a save system for the gearbox , with up to 380 NN is the Gear ratio set up ok. You have enough power with the VAT system, with a better cam set-up u can rev it up better .

You can try to fit mi16 gear wheels on t16 Gearbox, but I be sure it will broke. . On my GTI6 gearbox a peace of the diff shots out of the bell housing, creates a big hole in the firewall and cut another hole in my roof, thanks good that this part doesnt hit me.

So I have learn my lesson with T16 and be3 gearboxes, notice I run much more power then standard T16.

To make the 4 and 5 gear shorter is ok. But be sure the parts are strong enough what u fit.

The 180 gti runs a BE4/5 Gearbox not an ml.

 

The haltech Harness needs a, cam sensor, map sensor and 2 outputs for 2 waste gates, stepper motor, the T16 got a little bit more sensors then mi16

 

Again when I was you, I make first a plan to fix all in with the harness etc, get it runs, then u can start to change the set up.when u want i can send you a cd with 500 photos of my CTI t16 rebuiled ..so maybe it helps..

 

Regards Magic

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Again Mi16 gears do not fit the T16 gearbox...complete different setup and the primary and secondary shafts are a lot bigger on the T16.

 

As Magic says the GTi180 runs a BE4 box and not an ML. Those ML/ME boxes are really meant for high power/torque applications. That why you see them only on the turbo cars, turbo diesel cars and the V6s.

[phatgti 0]

Hi Paul,

It is a Tilton oil pump, they are quite heavy duty and work very well.

[pdd144c 0]

Cheers Wayne, I'll let you know how it all goes.

 

Paul.

[pdd144c 0]

Just bought a Xantia 1.9 TD BE3 box (thanks for the pointer Hilgie!), so once I've stripped it down I'll modify the casing as required and get the results up here.

[Mandic 0]

Does anyone know how is gbox cooling made?

 

Do I just cut the casing and make small sump and then pump oil out of it to oil cooler and maybe fit jets to spray oil to every gear?

 

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[pdd144c 0]

From what I remember Ziga we were thinking about using the two threaded entries on the box (drain and fill) and pump the oil from the bottom to a cooler which would then return via the fill entry, just like the BTCC cars we look after.

[Mandic 0]

Well I was thinking even further. Maybe one can even lower transmission losses by making some sort of sump which would gather oil and then pump that oil and cool it via oil cooler and then spray that oil back through spray bars positioned each on top of each cog.

 

So not only one would be able to cool oil down, but also remove oil out of cogs way and this way lower the actual transmission losses.

 

It is true that this system should work flawlessly as it is much more complex as the one which just pumps the oil, cos here oil is always present in the casing, one would just cool it down and then return same amount back, where in "my" system if pumps fails good bye gearbox.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga