Bilstein Suspension

[Gavin Waddell 18]

I have recently got my car through its swiss mot and now that im driving it i have a few queries.

 

its running bilstein coilovers on the fron twith HR springs, powerflex bushes on the wishbones and antiroll bar ,it has dampers on the back wîth baker bushes allround.It is also caged so the car is quit rigid. Any way the car doesnt feel very stable, the back end tends to feel really sloppy and the front under steers quite a lot on tight coners.

 

One thing i noticed with the coilovers is that to get the low enough i only seem to have a little bit of damper showing so i was thinking that they could be bottoming out and that why its a bit twithcy. So i was wondering what length and poundage of spring peole run with what insert if they have a code.

 

Also does any one know the height of a standard 205.

 

thanks gavin

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

is the rear end standard except for the bushes and dampers? If so i woulda thought a stiffer front end would cause more understeer than standard.

make sure the rear beam is in good nick and get a fat ARB in there

[taylorspug 7]

What poundage are the springs?

[Gavin Waddell 18]

the rear end is standard apart from the billies and has had an entire rebuild so no worries with the beam i dont know what poundage the springs are but i can find out. i was going to raise the car a little bit to get it more level as i think the nose is lower.

[Batfink 201]

you havent changed the spring rate on the rear so you will have more understeer. You need some thicker torsionbars to match the front

[SPGTi 2]

For a comparison I run Billie coilovers with PTS Forest inserts (can't remember the bump and rebound rates but the info is about with searching or just ring Bilstein UK ). I have 9" 185lb springs with rj eccentric top mounts. The rear is std 1.9 with Koni dampers wound up hard and PTS grp N rear mounts. The car is caged as well. My car handles pretty well with no real understeer (Quaife diff probably helps) and LOO as needed. It is very easy to balance and the handling has been complimented by better drivers than myself.

 

Steve

[Gavin Waddell 18]

right ive been reading old posts on suspension and well i have come to the conclusion that i need a thicker rear arb and torsion bars. i have also raised the front os the car so that i can get longer damber travrl becaue i think that the springs are to short and its is a bit crashy.

now i was wondering where the cheapest place to by the arb, i live in switzerland and well we dont have any r circuits so the amteur motorsport community is quite small unless you rally because thats kind of the only motorsport allowed here so gettng second hand parts is quite difficult.

i will probably contact peugeot sport france but does any one know somewhere in england that is cheap-

 

cheers gavin

[Batfink 201]

xsport racing sell them

[tom_m 0]

205 parts sell TBs and ARBs of any size to suit your needs

[Jrod 7]

I think you need torsion bars more than an ARB

[Gavin Waddell 18]

jrod you reckon that thicker tbs would do the trick. i aunt no suspension expert and my decision was purely based on what ive read on past post, it would be cool if some else could input something, it would help me make my mind up

[Jrod 7]

Stiffening up the suspension on the front only end will make it understeer more, if you stiffen the rear to match it should be alot more balanced.

 

Saying that it's still going to be quite twitchy etc if they springs and TB's are to stiff.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Jrod

[Gavin Waddell 18]

Right i ve been out for a test drive and well the diagnosis is this it will understeer when going hard into a rounabout, when entering hairpin bends( i have lots of mountains roads around here) the back will slide out when playing with the accelerator but it wont step out, but the thing that is a pain is on long sweeping bends the rear seems light and floaty and youkind of dont know whats going on. I understand what you mean jrod about balancing the car out so im going to call my suspension supplier to see the lenght and poundage of the spring i have, and also the inserts. i reckon they are to stiff and dont have enough travel. what springs do other people run with a standard rear end.

 

cheers for all the advice, its been 2 years in te making and well i want to enjoy, and well i want to get this sorted.

 

thanks Gavin

[luggy 13]

This link might help

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...=77291&st=0

[philfingers 5]

If you running tarmac springs this may cause it. Off hand I think they 250lb and gravel (that SPGti has) ones are 185lbs. Gravels ones come in 9 and 10". You haven't said but are you running an LSD? An lsd highlights any tracking issues dramatically, as do slight (5psi) differences in tyre pressures too. I'm only goign my my expereiences with my 309 road rally car (205 not finished yet) but that ran 309 gravel setup. Now to complicate matters 309 gravel settings are 205 tarmac (due to weight differnce of the cars), so I was running a gravel setup, with gravel rear dampers (all proper PTS stuff) with std rear beam (TB and ARB wise anyway). I had no problems with this turning in (TranX diff too). So based on that I should say that if your running gravel springs you should be ok with std rear bars. Have a look at the PTS Rally Build Manual. I think you can download it from a few places but if not PM me and I can mail it to you. It has the ride heights in it (centre of wheel to lower of arch trim). I don't have it handy at the moment to check

[philfingers 5]

apparently Tar' springs are 225lbs!

[SPGTi 2]

Just to add, before you start spending money on ARBs and TBs just make sure that the springs aren't going coil bound. A friend had this problem with 7" 225lb springs, changed them for 10" 190lbs and it transformed the front end setup.

 

Steve

[lee-bg 0]

my experience so far

stiff back side - easy to oversteer

stiff front - more prone to understeer

balance between both is the best solution. Also u need to fix the back torsion with thicker bar and VERY GOOD tires all wheels is 'a must'.

my 2 cents.

 

good luck mate.

[Gavin Waddell 18]

ok been a while, i spoke to my suspension guy and he says that i have 335lb springs on the front and it is what bilstein recommned for the 205, they are H&R springs. When i mentioned that people on the forum where using 185-225lb springs he was saying they were to soft?Any hows im going to invest in a set of torion bars of the thicker vatiety was thinking 25mm. (got a bonus at work for one of the projects i worked on)

I was also thinking of getting myself some eccentric top mounts to dial in a bit of canber castor.

 

cheers for all the advice

 

Gavin

[Jrod 7]

That is way to stiff to use on the road.

[Gavin Waddell 18]

it will also be tracked the road is kind of a test bed, i dont use it as a daily driver, when i do the i dont really drive fast as over her they dont like that kind of thing. when i do go out for a blat it is on roads wich are quite well tarmac unsure:

[Jrod 7]

Ah right

 

I just assumed it was your road car as you said ti went through a mot thing.

[Grahamrally 0]

335lb is really still race car stiffness though. Especially if the beam is still relatively standard and you're running that stiffness up front, you will see very funny handling characteristics. You will at least need to uprate the torsion bars and the anti roll bar too if possible. It has been said, but if you don't increase the spring stiffness on the rear, (torsion bars), you will see increased understeer.

[Gavin Waddell 18]

its along story on the mot, i did to get plates so i kind drive it on te road occasionally, we do have some great roads over here. i have an escort estate as a daily diver the 205 is like my sunday car. now to what graham said would 25mm be a good match for the front springs.

 

thanks gavin