RossD 44 Posted August 3, 2007 Right, well it's got to that time where I'm having to decide on an ECU for my project. I've narrowed it down to either a KMS unit from QEP or an Emerald from Dave Walker. Both have their pro's and cons and need some advice on how to choose. I know most people on here say "Ask whoever is going to map it for you" but at the moment I don't have any idea on who will map it yet either The KMS has the advantage of price and having an optional wideband lambda interface available, but it also needs an Ignition driver or the KMS coil to be able to run it on my TU engine build. The Emerald has built in ignition drivers but does not have a wideband available but has the advantage of Dave Walkers mapping (Plus its only £275+vat!) Emerald is slightly more expensive, but once I add in the wideband, ignition driver to the cost of the ECU the KMS comes out more expensive. So, is their anybody with experience of either system who can elaborate on the pro's and cons of each? I did a search earlier, but nothing really came up with the actual info I was after Cheers Ross Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 3, 2007 I've grown to prefer DTA to both of those, the new S40 is brilliant. You could run a wideband with the Emerald, the Innovate LC-1 or LM-1 kits can be bought with display off ebay for about £200, or just the sensor and controller for about £150. You can set up the analogue output to simulate a normal Lambda signal, which the Emerald will happily refer to on closed loop. The new K3 probably accepts 0-5v WB signal I would imagine, but I haven't checked. The K3 does have a fuelling correction map, as does the DTA S40. I've even managed to get the S40 to generate a fuelling map from a standard Lambda sensor, but it takes more setting up than a WB Lambda and is a bit iffy at full throttle. I keep having to make this point though, the closed loop fuelling is a very useful tool, but more than half the quality of the map is in the ignition and other settings. Getting the other elements right it what it's all about and every engine will be different, even with seemingly identical specs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossD 44 Posted August 3, 2007 I keep having to make this point though, the closed loop fuelling is a very useful tool, but more than half the quality of the map is in the ignition and other settings. Getting the other elements right it what it's all about and every engine will be different, even with seemingly identical specs. Oh I totally agree Sandy, which is why I was leaning towards the Emerald as I've only heard good things about DW's mapping; I'm a fiddler though and love to experiment and so having a wideband would allow me to fiddle in relative safety How much typically is a DTA S40 pro then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 3, 2007 £575 inc VAT typically including the plug. It has built in ignition drivers and two injector drivers, it can run semi-sequential or two staged sets of injectors batch firing. I've used it both ways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 601 Posted August 3, 2007 (edited) I agree with Sandy. Setting the fuel mixtures is now a relatively easy task thanks to the lower price of reliable wide band sensors and digital readouts. However, getting the ignition mapping correct is time consuming and must be done on the dyno. That's were you should be paying the money for the difference between a good job and a bad job. Any dyno operator that says otherwise should be avoided. It's a shame you didn't want a Haltech...... Edited August 3, 2007 by petert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPGTi 2 Posted August 3, 2007 Just to add. When I was looking at after market ECU's I spoke with the owner of the rolling road I have always used about what to get. His comments were KMS, Emerald and Megasquirt are a pig to map. He prefers OMEX, DTA or MBE for ease of mapping. He reckons half a day mapping on the "easy" systems to be there or there abouts and at least a day to be at the same point with the other systems. Considering the rates are £300 per 1/2 day that seemed a big difference. Once everything is mapped up though, he didn't really see much difference between them unless specific features were required. With the Emerald though I think getting DW to map it at his flat rate is a no brainer and will make the overall cost a lot cheaper than the others. Saving £100 on initial costs can soon be lost at the mapping stage. Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossD 44 Posted August 3, 2007 With the Emerald though I think getting DW to map it at his flat rate is a no brainer and will make the overall cost a lot cheaper than the others. Saving £100 on initial costs can soon be lost at the mapping stage. Steve Which is exactly what has attracted me to the Emerald in the first place! Its slightly more expensive than the KMS but the flat rate map costs are great. Granted, Norfolk is quite a trek from Kent.... I've downloaded and have been reading the DTA S40 manual. For what I'm using it for, any of these ECU's would fit the bill so really I suppose it comes down to mapping quality and cost. And really, the Emerald is still top of my list for those criteria. If I do get an Emerald K3, I wouldn't have anyone but DW map it, even if there is along wait. Nobody knows a system better than the person who designed it after all. The KMS system is a bargain really, but I reckon those savings will be eaten up when it comes to mapping. From re-reading this is really does look as if I've made my mind up, but in reality, thats far from the truth!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandy 191 Posted August 3, 2007 I don't think you can go far wrong with DW, everyone I know who's used him has been happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d-9 0 Posted August 3, 2007 Having used KMS for a year or so on my XSI Id go for emerald, the mapping software on the KMS is terrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossD 44 Posted August 3, 2007 Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm definatly leaning towards the Emerald K3 at the moment, as based on the comments I have heard here and from what others have said people always seem happy with the Emerald setup. I think the DTA would be 2nd choice and KMS 3rd. Of course, next week I will have totally changed my mind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pdd144c 0 Posted August 3, 2007 We fit Emerald to all our cars now, great system and after sales service. And as everyone else has stated, Dave's mapping is very good! Paul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vern 0 Posted August 3, 2007 I run the K3 Emerald with wideband lambda controlling fueling, and have no problems. When I was looking at which ecu to get, I could not find anyone local to map it, even QEP could not recommend anyone. So brought an Emerald and had it mapped by Dave and have not looked back since, can not recommend him and his products enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RossD 44 Posted August 6, 2007 Well I've been offered an Emerald K3 for about the same price as the KMS setup, so in my eyes, its a no brainer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cybernck 402 1 Cars Posted August 7, 2007 those wanting to purchase an Emerald M3D ECU (directly from Emerald), don't forget to ask for a 205GTIDrivers.com discount! the same goes about KMS & QEP really . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
