Turbo Charging....

[matty_gti 20]

Right well ive been thinking about turbo charging a 1.9 8v engine, and before you ask yes i have searched for ages! ...any way i just have a few questions...

 

1. The 1.9 TT pistons, are they machined or low compression?

 

2. What is the CR in a standerd 1.9 TT engine?

 

3. how much boost did a 1.9 TT make?

 

4. fitting TT pistons to a std 1.9 GTI engine with CR of 9.8:1, how much will it decrease the compression?.

 

5. Will a Turbo e.manifold and turbo from a 406 2l turbo fit the 1.9?, and what are the turbos that come off the 406, xm and exantia?, are they all the same?.

 

Thanks.

Edited July 6, 2007 by matty_gti

[TEKNOPUG 3]

1. The 1.9 TT pistons, are they machined or low compression? Machined for low compression

 

2. What is the CR in a standerd 1.9 TT engine? About 8.5:1

 

3. how much boost did a 1.9 TT make? 10-12psi

 

4. fitting TT pistons to a std 1.9 GTI engine with CR of 9.8:1, how much will it decrease the compression?. TT engine is standard bar the pistons so, about 8.5:1

 

5. Will a Turbo e.manifold and turbo from a 406 2l turbo fit the 1.9? Not without some work - false economy anyway - the 406 E/M are not very good - you can buy a TT one for £250 - or just fit the whole engine.

 

The most important thing that you need to decide is how you are going to manage the spark/fuel.

If you run a fully mappable management system, you can get away with leaving the CR stock as long as you keep below 1 bar - you'll get the added bonus of more power and better driveability.

 

If not, then you'll need to lower the CR. The later CAT engine run low comp pistons, so either use though or the whole engine.

[matty_gti 20]

Thanks for the reply!...ive taken this from the main GTI site from 'ericyellow'

 

"Engine used in this conversion is XU9JAZ, a catalytic converter version of GTI 1.9 engine, with compression ratio of 9.2:1 and 120 bhp as standard, also a Motronic 1.3 ECU instead of the usual Jetronic one. The compression ratio was not altered as this is a low boost application (max ~0.45bars), so DO NOT try to perform this conversion on a standard 130 bhp engine without lowering the compression ratio!"

 

He only runs about .5 bar (7.2~psi), but if i went with the TT pistons which would lower the CR more than the cat 1.9 pistons i could have more boost (10-12~psi) - (0.68 - 0.82~psi) like the TT setup which is the way i would be running it, the fifth injector way.

 

Thanks.

[M3Evo 0]

Should easily be able to run 7ish psi on the standard compression if it's around 9.8:1

 

Mine's 9.7:1 running 7psi and makes a respectable 108bhp/litre. It's soaked up 1bar before too without any problems

 

Would say that the engine management side of things would either make or break a relatively high compression boosted setup.

[pdd144c 0]

An engine on standard compression will run up to 8-9 psi before the charge temp starts to suffer. A bigger cooler should solve this issue though. My old TT saw 186bhp and 181lb/ft torque running 9psi on standard compression and a standard cooler.

 

As Andy says management is the key for this kind of conversion. For the price of a decent ECU (I can currently offer the new Emerald K3 to forum members for £520) there should be no need to run a fifth injector setup, which is somewhat out dated.

[welshpug 1,656]

An engine on standard compression will run up to 8-9 psi before the charge temp starts to suffer. A bigger cooler should solve this issue though. My old TT saw 186bhp and 181lb/ft torque running 9psi on standard compression and a standard cooler.

 

As Andy says management is the key for this kind of conversion. For the price of a decent ECU (I can currently offer the new Emerald K3 to forum members for £520) there should be no need to run a fifth injector setup, which is somewhat out dated.

 

Is that with a loom? or plugged into the engines existing loom?

 

and while you're on the subject of using 4 injectors rather than 5, the standard ones would need upgrading no doubt, but to what? what suitable donors are there?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Henry on this forum run's the Low Comp 1.9 105bhp engine with a 406 Turbo I think, Run's pretty well now and that came in pretty cheap as the 406/XM ECU and Loom was used, but as ever these conversion's can cost as little or as much as you'll like

[Paintguy 0]

Henry on this forum run's the Low Comp 1.9 105bhp engine with a 406 Turbo I think, Run's pretty well now

 

I've driven it recently and it changed my mind completely about turbocharged (petrol) cars. I've always hated the lack of low down grunt, and despised turbo lag, but Henry's home-brew job suffers very little from either of these.

 

Sure it might have made a little more power if the conversion had been done a different way, but I think it's hard to beat in terms of all round driveability and response, which matters more to me than ultimate BHP figures.

[pdd144c 0]

Is that with a loom? or plugged into the engines existing loom?

 

and while you're on the subject of using 4 injectors rather than 5, the standard ones would need upgrading no doubt, but to what? what suitable donors are there?

 

Without loom, but includes plug so you can make your own. Looms are £60.

 

Rover Turbo seem a popular choice.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Vern(?) I think....runs stock compression and less than 1bar and makes well over 200bhp with an Emerald set up. As Miles says "these conversion's can cost as little or as much as you'll like" - there are a multitude of different ways/combinations to run these kind of set ups.

[matty_gti 20]

Should easily be able to run 7ish psi on the standard compression if it's around 9.8:1

 

Mine's 9.7:1 running 7psi and makes a respectable 108bhp/litre. It's soaked up 1bar before too without any problems

 

Would say that the engine management side of things would either make or break a relatively high compression boosted setup.

 

Thanks for the help chaps....

 

I thought that running 7ish psi i would of need to lower the cr...and deff if i was goin to run 1 bar on a 9.8:1 setup....to get thet extra boost would you need to fit a larger intercooler to lower the air temp?.

 

On the TT setup when did it 'over boost' and how did it get around that?.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

On the TT setup when did it 'over boost' and how did it get around that?.

 

Not sure what you mean by this? The boost level is controlled by the wastegate actuator.

[matty_gti 20]

Not sure what you mean by this? The boost level is controlled by the wastegate actuator.

 

lol, sorry i was so tierd when i wrote that...i ment how did the TT setup adjust the ign timing when on boost?....And if i wanted to run up to 1 bar of boost on standard CR would i need a new managment or could i use a 5th injector?, but if i went with a lower CR i could run it the TT way?.

 

Sorry for all the q's..still learning

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

lol, sorry i was so tierd when i wrote that...i ment how did the TT setup adjust the ign timing when on boost?....And if i wanted to run up to 1 bar of boost on standard CR would i need a new managment or could i use a 5th injector?, but if i went with a lower CR i could run it the TT way?.

 

Sorry for all the q's..still learning

 

i think they had a vacuum controller on the distributer but im not too sure, maybe someone else can confirm?

 

if you wanted to run a bar of boost on standard cr you would definately need aftermarket management for precise fuelling and timing adjustments. banging a 5th injector on it would just cause meltdown due to pre ignition without accurate timing control.

 

you could run it like a tt setup if you lowered the cr but the best way of doing it would be modern management. running it with standard cr and 1 bar of boost on modern stuff would make a great deal more power and torque than the tt setup, and it will make for a much nicer power delivery etc.

Edited July 8, 2007 by pugger

[TEKNOPUG 3]

What he said.

[saveloy 8]

Matty, any particular reason you are straying away from the Mi16 route?

With decent management, wonderful things are possible.

Every Pug enthusiast owes it to themselves to drive a good TT. It's life changing!

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

My Low comp CTI had a 406 manifold stuck on it and 406 ECU etc and makes 164bhp and 200lb/ft or Torque running 0.5 bar. It does for me! It is pretty reliable, dead economical and is quite quiet too.

[Alastairh 47]

Henry on this forum run's the Low Comp 1.9 105bhp engine with a 406 Turbo I think, Run's pretty well now and that came in pretty cheap as the 406/XM ECU and Loom was used, but as ever these conversion's can cost as little or as much as you'll like

 

Deffinatly. Im rather impressed with Henrys car. Wouldn't mind seeing it in the future maybe with one of Pauls manifolds, and as other Paul said try an emerald to see how it reacts, and maybe that would help save your new shiny paint work, from back street rolling road walls

Edited July 8, 2007 by Alastairh

[matty_gti 20]

i think they had a vacuum controller on the distributer but im not too sure, maybe someone else can confirm?

 

Can any one confirm this?

 

Matty, any particular reason you are straying away from the Mi16 route?

With decent management, wonderful things are possible.

Every Pug enthusiast owes it to themselves to drive a good TT. It's life changing!

 

Its just an idea

 

My Low comp CTI had a 406 manifold stuck on it and 406 ECU etc and makes 164bhp and 200lb/ft or Torque running 0.5 bar. It does for me! It is pretty reliable, dead economical and is quite quiet too.

 

how did you go about fitting the 406 e.manifold to fit your car?

Edited July 9, 2007 by matty_gti

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Can any one confirm this?

 

Yep - they have an ignition retard capsule in the dizzy.

 

Stick Turbo Tecnics in the search function - there are complete details on the forum somewhere.

 

Look for posts by Matt Cony, Saveloy, Mad Professor etc. Also run a search on Chip Wizards for in depth details.

 

Plus google 205 Turbo Technics

 

 

 

If you are still unsure then it may be easier to buy an original version rather than convert yours........

[vern 0]

I am using the low compression pistons from the cat engine machined to give a compression ratio of 9:1, and using a TT style manifold (205 parts), I am running the Emerald K3 with 330 cc injectors, the turbo is a modified compressor wheel on the standard TT turbo. I am making about 230-240BHP on 1 bar of boost, and 190 on 0.7 bar.