1.6 Or 1.9 Gti As Base Car For Mi16 Conversion

[Dave_McC 0]

I've searched but can't find an answer to this. I already have the engine which I'm in the process of rebuilding, and am on the lookout for a suitable Gti to convert.

 

I've bought a 309 Gti front subframe, hubs, wishbones, shafts setup and also a 309 Gti rear beam complete with calipers, so obviously don't care about the 1600 having lower spec front hubs and shafts.

 

I'd also want the 1600 gearbox to keep the gearing low.

 

The only real difference left seems to be the brake setup - is the 1600 brake line / master cylinder setup worse than the 1900 - how much replumbing will be required to fit the disk braked rear beam to a 1600 shell?

 

Anything else I should be aware of? I'm working that I can pick up 1900 wheels and seats off here or fleabay.

 

Do 1600s generally sell for less money - this may be a big plus point

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Revla 2]

I've searched but can't find an answer to this. I already have the engine which I'm in the process of rebuilding, and am on the lookout for a suitable Gti to convert.

 

I've bought a 309 Gti front subframe, hubs, wishbones, shafts setup and also a 309 Gti rear beam complete with calipers, so obviously don't care about the 1600 having lower spec front hubs and shafts.

 

I'd also want the 1600 gearbox to keep the gearing low.

 

The only real difference left seems to be the brake setup - is the 1600 brake line / master cylinder setup worse than the 1900 - how much replumbing will be required to fit the disk braked rear beam to a 1600 shell?

 

Anything else I should be aware of? I'm working that I can pick up 1900 wheels and seats off here or fleabay.

 

Do 1600s generally sell for less money - this may be a big plus point

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Hi,

 

I reckon most of this is on here but:

 

1.6 or 1.9 - no matter. 309 GTi beam & discs to a 1.6 - no problem, no need to change anything m/c or line wise.

 

HTH

 

Trev

[Veero 1]

Mine's from a 1.6, only issue is the pedal travel is long with the 1.9 disc rear beam and 206 calipers up front. They still work and legally passed the MOT with correct braking performance and distribution but very long pedal travel I will be changing the MCL one weekend very soon. The only plumbing issues were getting the brake unions undone without wrecking the solid pipes.

 

As for the rest of the car it comes down to whether or not you want PAS and E/W with it. I find it fine without and a 1.6 base car can be had more cheaply and easily than a 1.9 and electric window gear can be had cheaply form a scrappy and if you get a phase 2 1.6 all the wiring is there already all you need to swap over are the switches and motors..

 

Swapping the hubs and shafts over isn't a problem if you have all the 309 bits already anyway. Other than that a 1.6 badged 205 will surprise more people when you annihilate them with the Mi16

 

Veero

[Ryan 99]

The master cylinders are the same on both models, so no worry there.

 

As for the pipework all that's needed to fit the rear discs to the 1.6 is the 2 rearmost rubber hoses (as the 1.6 doesn't have these) and the 2 rearmost copper lines that go into the drums need replacing with shorter pipes as the rubber ones make up the extra length.

 

The 1.6 pipework is also easier to fit a bias valve into if you wanted to.

 

The 1.6 rear compensator is also a lot more reliable than the 2 smaller 1.9 compensators.

Edited June 27, 2007 by Ryan

[Kev-G 1]

The master cylinders are the same on both models, so no worry there.

 

SIMILAR, not the same....1.6 is 3 port, 1.9 is 4 port. Bore is the same.

 

As for the question - Buy the best shell that you can....Everything else is replaceable.

[Ryan 99]

SIMILAR, not the same....1.6 is 3 port, 1.9 is 4 port. Bore is the same.

 

As for the question - Buy the best shell that you can....Everything else is replaceable.

 

Yes, meant to say 'same cylinder size'.

[Longun 1]

As for the pipework all that's needed to fit the rear discs to the 1.6 is the 2 rearmost rubber hoses (as the 1.6 doesn't have these) and the 2 rearmost copper lines that go into the drums need replacing with shorter pipes as the rubber ones make up the extra length.

 

Sorry to jump on the thread but can you confirm what needs to be replaced? I'm running braided hoses at the rear on my 1.6. Will these need to be chanced when I fit the 309 rear beam?

[Veero 1]

The 2 flexis to the beam which wrap around the beam tube should be the same but you will need 2 additional flexis to go from the end of the pipe to the caliper since the caliper is on a pair of sliders.

 

Veero

[Ryan 99]

Sorry to jump on the thread but can you confirm what needs to be replaced? I'm running braided hoses at the rear on my 1.6. Will these need to be chanced when I fit the 309 rear beam?

 

Keep the 1.6 setup running back to, and including the 2 hoses that go round the beam.

 

On the 1.6 there are then 2 hard pipes which go from the beam directly into the rear drums. These need changing. The 1.9/309 has shorter hard pipes with a rubber pipe on the end which then screws into the rear caliper. The calipers move about on their mounts so the extra rubber pipe allows for the movement.

[Alastairh 47]

The 2 flexis to the beam which wrap around the beam tube should be the same but you will need 2 additional flexis to go from the end of the pipe to the caliper since the caliper is on a pair of sliders.

 

Veero

 

One of the 1600 flexis are different, on the drivers side.

 

Personally id start with a 1.9, but still do able with a 1600 shell.

 

If your running big brakes a.k.a. 266mm, 283mm etc. That means you can get rid of the rear compensators. Which is another good point, as there crap

 

Alastair

[jackherer 543]

It doesn't really matter if its a 1.6 or 1.9, use whatever you can find with the best bodywork, all parts are easy to swap but a knackered body is a proper effort to get sorted.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Just an interesting thing about some of the Ph2 1.6 GTi's.

Not long ago I bought a 1991 model 1.6 GTi, imported from france, 60k miles on the clock.

 

Because this was equipped with ABS brakes it has the complete 1.9 suspension and brakes, with discs at the rear, and complete 1.9 setup at front. Pretty strange

[Longun 1]

My 1.6 is staying a 1.6 to show you 16v boys that the old 8v ain't passed it I just want the rear beam and front arms from a 309 on it. Both of which I now have I'm just sorting out fitted it all I need to get off my ass and get under the car and take a look really

 

Cheers for this advice I'll see how it goes and post back on here. Might even take some pics and write a little 1.6 to 1.9 complete change guide.

 

Thanks

Edited July 11, 2007 by Longun