[trackday_prep] Project 150

[welshpug 1,661]

can't see the pics, you need to hoist on an external site or upload.

[RossD 44]

Well that didnt work.... Second time lucky!

 

Dirty horrid engine....

 

 

Same with the gearbox - 70k miles worth of leaking crankshaft seal and accumulated grime!

 

Things didnt get any better in the bellhousing...

 

However, some time with some Bilt Hamber Surfex HD and some acid cleaner and it came up a treat!

 

 

Engine gets the same treatment - Surfex HD followed by a mild strength acid cleaner. THis just makes it easier to strip down - It will have a proper clean once its fully stripped.

 

 

Next step is to measure the lift and duration of the standard cams. My Emerald wont control the VVT on the inlet cam on this unfortunatley, so armed with the duration data I can look to retime the cams to run on fixed timing.

 

From research I've done, the exhaust cam is timed at 104 degrees ATDC, however the inlet cam can be varied from 97 degrees ATDC to 137 degrees ATDC. WIth VVT disabled, this defaults to 137 degrees, so using the standard cam pullys is out of the question - I'll have to get some aftermarket adjustable pulley to be able to time the cams properly to something like 110 deg ATDC.

Edited August 29, 2015 by RossD

[RossD 44]

I know this isn't Detailing world (I'm way off those standards anyway)...!

The inlet manifold was also pretty manky, as well as ingrained oily dirt, the aluminium was pretty corroded.

 

 

So with everything stripped off, the FBW throttle, all the breather pipes and the breather 'catch tank' that bolts up underneath.

Again, this got Surfex HD and then acid cleaner, scrubbed with a stainless steel scourer. Came out much better.

 

​

Edited August 29, 2015 by RossD

[calvinhorse 870]

This is gonna be epic

 

May I recommend you ditch the cable gear shift, my girlfriends Citroen C4 vts has the worst shift ever, really slows the gear change down

[RossD 44]

Yep, this is the plan. However, the gear change rods may interfere with the exhaust manifold (Which itself will need modifying to fit) - I will have to do some trial fittings to confirm.

 

For those that haven't seen, the EW10J4S manifold is similar to a GTi6 (XU10J4RS) manifold, as in its a stainless 4-1.

​

Edited August 30, 2015 by RossD

[Kane 34]

Is the top mount a one off made by yourself or did you purchase it? If the latter would you mind sharing where you picked it up from and the cost?

[RossD 44]

Its made by Colin Satchell - He even has a website these days!

http://www.satchellengineering.co.uk/

 

Careful though - Spending too long on his website and you start getting tempted to spend lots of money on shiny parts!

[RossD 44]

I've been slowly getting through all of the measuring and logging on the engine before I start the strip down.

I've measured the lift and duration (from the cam lobe) of the inlet cam, results are as follows:

 

EW10J4S standard inlet cam:

 

Lift: 9.6mm

Duration: 199 Degrees

 

At first glance, 199 degrees duration at 1mm may seem too low, however remember this engine has VVT which moves the cam centreline around on the inlet, from 97 degrees fully advanced, to 137 degrees at full retard. I suspect the exhaust cam, which does not have VVT, will have either similar specs, or slightly more duration and lift. We will see. I'll get the exhaust data up as soon as I've measured it....

[RossD 44]

I've remeasured the cams, but this time from the lifter.

Inlet Duration: 202 Degrees @ 1mm

Exhaust Duration: 208 Degrees @ 1mm

 

Edited September 12, 2015 by RossD

[RossD 44]

A quick progress update.

 

For the cams, I've decided on a CatCam 803 profile. The cost of an ECU that would run the VVT on this engine was just silly, so I went with the more 'economical' option of a VVT delete profile. However, an inlet cam with some vernier pullies still comes in at over £500. Big shout out to Julian at Balance Motorsport (Veloce200 on this forum) for the cam deal.

 

The engine has been totally stripped and cleaned. Even if it doesn't look like new, its now very clean. Big ends and main bearings measured for wear and its all good. The cylinders still even have the honing marks visible from the factory honing.

For the main bearings, I ordered up the correct grade of bearings from Peugeot. Whilst this is not a cheap option (A set of main bearings and con rod bolts was over £130 from Pug) it should ensure a long and reliable life.

 

As per my post in the "Embrace the EW" topic, beware that the aftermarket big ends available for the EW engine dont fit the J4S engine. The Federal Mogul (Parent company of Glyco, Reinz, Payen etc) catalogue is wrong, so beware. Therefore, again its another £73 at Peugeot for the genuine items.

 

A couple of pictures....

 

​

The sump, lower main bearing ladder, block crank and head after coming out of my parts cleaning tank. I used a water based degreaser and its worked really well. The white foamy stuff on the bearing ladder is Loctite gasket remover.

 

​

The head cleaned up a treat just by leaving it to soak overnight in the degreasing solution. Its still awaiting final cleaning here.

 

​

New upper main bearings fitted to the block

 

Piston oil jets, crank and lower bearing ladder then installed.

 

One thing to note - This engine seems SO lightweight. I can easily lift the built up block around. I would have weighed it all, but the batteries in my scales have died. Compared to an iron block TU, this seems to be a featherweight. The crankshaft itself is actually heavier (13kg) than the bare block and lower bearing ladder combined.

Edited October 3, 2015 by RossD

[Lion mechanical 1]

Hi Ross I have been following your post and enjoy your humble yet knowledgeable insight into these engines I am a Peugeot/Mercedes trained mechanic.in Australia. Just would like to pick your brain if it's ok I have a Gti180 have had it for 10 years now and to my knowledge by the vin is the last to come to Aus. I've done 240000km in this time have always changed the oil every 5000km and she's been great but at the 250k am going to pull it down for a bit of a look. I would like to go for more power and was wondering what you thought of a steel crank from an XUD, is this required.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Lion mechanical

[camgti 56]

Lion Mech

 

There is a guy in OZ you can also speak with. I was going to go down a steel 92mm crank with an XU10 motor. No time or $ at the minute.

 

There was a 2.2ew motor you could also rob the crank from I believe.

 

Send me a PM if you need more info/contacts.

 

Cam

[RossD 44]

To be honest, I don't know about the crank. I would have thought it would only be required if you are increasing the revs and/or running some boost, however, as Sandy states in the 'Embrace the EW' thread, you would look to sorting the known weak components on these engines first, including the oil pump etc.

[RossD 44]

Long overdue an update on this.

The engine was rebuilt in September / October last year and has been mounted on an engine stand all winter in the garage. The MOT, insurance and tax on the 205 has now expired, so I thought this would be an ideal time to pull out the existing throttle bodied TU engine (For sale soon...!) and trial fit the EW engine and box.

 

However, due to the amount of faffing in getting the EW engine in, there's no way it's coming back out again without a lot of scraped knuckles and effort, so it can stay in for now.

The exhaust manifold lines up nicely with the Satchell engine mount, but the front panel is going to need some massaging to fit the alternator in properly and give it some clearance. There is also plenty of clearance for the master cylinder, something MI16 and GTi6 installations struggle with.

 

However the whole engine needs to move over to the drivers side by about 10mm, however the engine mount is hard up against the lip on the bodywork that is the drivers side top engine mount, so this will need some work also.

 

For the bottom mount, I think I can use the fork from a 306 HDi. Gear linkages are going to require a satchshift, so I'll ahve to open my wallet!

 

Oh btw, I weighed the existing iron block 1.6 TU 8v engine and it came out at 118kg (With starter, alternator, exhaust manifold, flywheel and clutch) and I also weighed the new EW engine with the same ancillaries - Comes out at 135kg. Going to have to find 15kg to lose from somewhere

 

Some pictures!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by RossD

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Nice one, looks right at home in there.

 

205 EW conversion kits available soon!?

[RossD 44]

With the correct bits, it seems to be surprisingly easy. The only challenge it seems is going to be a downpipe/exhaust. Might see if a 206 decat pipe can be made to fit.... It looks like the manifold can be used without modification which is nice!

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Exhaust sounds easier than a 6 then!

[welshpug 1,661]

Nice one, looks right at home in there.

 

205 EW conversion kits available soon!?

satchell do a top mount arm, the rest is normal bits.

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

I've been musing over an EW conversion for my 205 so your thread has popped up at the right time! With the Satchell top arm, it looks like it all drops in to place.

 

One thing though, the EW sump sits quite low from your photo. How close is that to the ground?

 

Top work by the way...

[welshpug 1,661]

no lower than an xu I'd imagine, its a shorter block, though I forgot to measure total height.

[RossD 44]

I'll measure it later, but there is a funny ridge on the bottom of the sump on an EW that an XU doesnt have, which probably makes it sit lower than an XU in reality, even though it has a shorter block. It does sit below the subframe, but that picture does make it look worse than it is. I'd guess about 10cm clearance? It's on Eibach 7001 springs.

[Anthony 1,003]

Oh btw, I weighed the existing iron block 1.6 TU 8v engine and it came out at 118kg (With starter, alternator, exhaust manifold, flywheel and clutch) and I also weighed the new EW engine with the same ancillaries - Comes out at 135kg. Going to have to find 15kg to lose from somewhere

Good to see some hard figures!

 

I'm another that has mused a possible EW conversion in the future, so I'll be keeping an eye on how you get on with this.

[welshpug 1,661]

lighter flywheel will drop a fair few from your target

[RossD 44]

The flywheel on the J4S engine is only about 6Kg in stock form. (I've found a reference to 5.8Kg on a french forum) I dont know how this compares to others, but to me it seems pretty lightweight.

 

For comparison, when I had my 406, the Valeo solid flywheel kit I replaced the dual mass one with was close to 15Kg.

Edited May 3, 2016 by RossD

[dcc 855]

Its twice the weight of the xu10j4rs ttv flywheel. Depending on your power aim/hopes, might be worth finding a cheap on and saving yourself 3kg of rotational mass

 

I decided to go for a ttv 206 180 flywheel