Veero 1 Posted June 18, 2007 My 205 has been somewhat of an ongoing project. It started out as a 1.6, last year I MI'd it and put 307HDi calipers on the front. Now the brakes worked really really well, with a side effect of slightly longer pedal travel which I could deal with, as it was nothing dangerous just the bite point was slightly lower. Week before last I fitted a 1.9 disc rear beam to the back retaining the standard 1.6 brake system. On bleeding it felt as if it was taking too long to get all the bubbles out so I left it at that to get the rest of the engine done and the car running. On Sunday I finally got it working and the brakes were ok, took it for a spin around the close and they were less than convincing. I thought it might just be the discs had rusted up but after a few heavy stops this cleared up but brake performance was still definitely lacking and the pedal felt a bit spongey. I cant work on the car until Saturday and it is booked in for the MOT next Monday. I will try re-bleeding but I have heard it mentioned about the seals in old MCLs failing if they are used in a way they havent been used before ie longer pedal travel for example. So is the seal fixable or is it likely to need a new MCL? If so what is the best one for my setup and will I need to redo any brake pipes since the old unions are probably corroded up to buggery (which I am dreading as I dont have a flaring kit or any pipe)? I have done a search but couldnt find any info specfic for this set up (205 1.6 MCL, 1.9 rears, 307 HDi fron calipers). Thanks Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars Posted June 18, 2007 personally I would switch to a 23mm cylinder. If you have any suspicions at all about seals in the master cylinder replace it. If your replacing it anywy then the 23mm is the way forwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 18, 2007 Ok. And what car would one of those be from? Also how many ports for brakelines does it have? If it has too many can I simply blank them with blanking plugs? My knowledge of brake systems is limited, sorry. Never changed an MCL before Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonah 1 Posted June 18, 2007 A spongey brake pedal is not a symptom of a failed master cylinder - most likely there's still just some air in the system. The Haynes manual mentions a special method to get air out of the 1.6 rear brake compensator - did you do that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 18, 2007 Uh no I didnt, I forgot to take the Haynes manual with me to the car at the weekend, I will consult it and fidn out the method tonight. Thanks for the heads up Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mi16nut 0 Posted June 19, 2007 Also try taking the rear calipers off their mountings, chock the piston with a pieces of wood, & move the caliper around whilst bleeding. The bleed nipple isn't at the very top, hence air gets trapped & can't get out when mounted on the car. On the mc side, you can get a 22.2mm version from a 405 & they generally come with blanking plugs. A 23mm might leave you with virtually no pedal travel at all, but it's a matter of taste. With the 22.2 version you will have to adjust the mc piston/ plunger thing otherwise your brakes will lock on as it heats up. Mark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 19, 2007 Ok will try the method for bleeding 1.6 rear brakes and the block method to get all the air out. How much money would I be looking for a 22.2mm MCL and would ECP type place likely to stock it? Also why would I have to adjust it to prevent lock, surely that's what the fluid expansion reservoir is for? Cheers Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petert 588 Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) With the 22.2 version you will have to adjust the mc piston/ plunger thing otherwise your brakes will lock on as it heats up. The 306 22.2mm M/C is much better in this regard. It's plunger length is identical to a 205 and has all the ports. Edited June 19, 2007 by petert Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 19, 2007 Ok, sounds better. Can I reuse all the existing pipework though and just blank any unnecessary ports? I don't want to have to redo any brake pipes if I can avoid it. Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
V8Pete 0 Posted June 21, 2007 Hope I'm not hijacking, but does anyone know which reservoirs will fit on a 405 T16 (non-UK turbo flying machine?) 23.8 mm master cylinder in a 205? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Super Josh 4 Posted June 21, 2007 Hope I'm not hijacking, but does anyone know which reservoirs will fit on a 405 T16 (non-UK turbo flying machine?) 23.8 mm master cylinder in a 205? Pete, is it the alloy BOSCH MC, the same as fitted to an Mi 405? If it is then I can put up a picture of the one fitted to mine. The only problem you will have with a T16 one is that it will have ABS, so only 2 ports, so you will need to fit a couple of splitters if you have discs at the rear. Or one splitter if you have rear drums. Or get an earlier Mi16 one without ABS, which will have 4 ports. Josh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
V8Pete 0 Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) It's a four port - I was trying to buy a 306 22.2 mm non-ABS one, but when I went to pick it up, it was some weird thing with diagonal mounting bolt holes and only two ports (and came with two blanking plugs ). Ended up getting this four-port thing, looked it up, and apparently it suits a 405 T16x4, 16v ZXs, and a whole lot of Renault Lagunas. The reservoir holes are 30 mm centre to centre, and 15 mm diameter (rubber bits). Edited June 21, 2007 by V8Pete Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 26, 2007 Ok anyway hijacking aside... Any tips for changing the MCL? It passed the MOT since the correct braking effort was present but the travel is far too long. So a 22.2 MCL from a 306 and use a couple of blanking plugs? Cheers Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 27, 2007 Can anyone tell me what year and model of 306 this MCL would come from? Something like this I would definitely consider worth buying new. Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,657 Posted June 29, 2007 try this site for brake part applications - http://www.brakeparts.co.uk/ but from memory a 405 Mi16 has a 22.2mm MC and when I bought one from ECP it was a bosch 4 port unit with blanking plugs. edit, just checked and i was correct, and the T16 does use a 23.8mm item. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted June 29, 2007 But someone said above the 405 one will need adjusting or the brakes will lock? Which model 306 uses the 22.2mm one, and if it's a 4 port one I just blank the other ports off with the plugs? Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Veero 1 Posted July 2, 2007 Brilliant, so we're taling approximately 94-97 ish 1.8 16v? If so Ill get one ordered up. Thanks Veero Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
