Correct Mi16 Engine Angle?

[matt-k 0]

Hello all, ive tried using a search for this but it just keeps coming back saying error! Im going to be fitting my Mi soon and was under the impression that you had to extend the bottom engine mount bracket to get the correct angle for the oil pick up, i asked Petert on here how much he charges for a re-angle exhaust plate ($165 +30 postage!! seems exsessive for an ally plate) and he also told me not to extend the engine mount as you dont need to? A freind of has just fitted a steel block Mi in his 205 and it dropped straight in without the need of any re-angling anywhere! so if you dont need to adjust the engine angle for the pick up then why would i need to fork out on an Angle plate or reangled exhaust!?

Could someone please shed some light on this matter as im lost on this!? Also if i do need to extend the bottom mount then how many milli or inches does it need extending?

 

Thanks alot guys for any input, Matt.

[gti_al 1]

Peter's wedge is a pretty painless solution... An aftermarket manifold, or getting someone to re-angle yours will cost more and be unnessary stress. I got one of peter's last week, and there is more to it than just an ally plate. You need to reangle the exhaust to ensure it doesn't hit the bulkhead anyway, and the standard lower mount is correct as is.

[inferno 1]

iirc the steel block mi has a similar 4branchs to the gti manifold as opposed to the 8 branch ally manifold, and this manifold will fit with no mods to the bulkhead.

 

not sure if it can be used on the ally engine port and stud pattern wise.

 

ive never had any issues extending the bottom mount and reangling the downpipe though tbh.

[matt-k 0]

Thanks

So the mounts are fine as they are, thats one less job then I guess my freind was just lucky with his then or he's just bodged it! Havent seen it myself yet. The reason i said it seems excessive is because ive seen re-angled manifolds sell for about that price second hand but i guess im just being tight as usual!! I'll ask a chap i know at a local fabrication unit how much he'd charge for one.

Could you or (anyone elts) let me now what angle the plate is cut at so i could try & have one made cheaper?

If i can get it much cheaper ill let everyone know and maybe have some extra made.

 

Thanks again, Matt

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

It also shows that you can unequivocally trust PeterT; which you can.

 

Rich

 

P.S. When I did my conversion I found an Mi16 (8 into 1) original manifold that had been cut and rewelded with the new angle; £90 I paid. I then sold it recently on the forum for £60. It's worth you hunting around for this solution, because I assure you, you will spend a lot of your time (and petrol probably) trying to find a 'cheap' solution having your own wedge plate made only to walk into a few other problems, like needing angled washers to help the exhaust manifold nuts sit squarely on the studs against the flange of the manifold. I'm also not sure whether you need any longer studs. In short, a reangling 'kit' which is ready to go sounds the simpler option than trying to save a couple of quid.

 

P.P.S. "Flange"....... ...

Edited June 17, 2007 by DrSarty

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The Iron block engine as found in the 405's and 306 S16 fit without any issues at all, even the std Downpipe fits without mod's, But the Alloy one is different, QEP sell a wedge as well no idea on price thou as I only fit the 4-2-1 for ease,

[petert 560]

Due to manufacturing tolerances, no two 205's are the same! It may be necessary on some cars to give the bulkhead a tap, but most of the time, the wedge allows the standard downpipe to line up perfectly with the Mi16 exhaust manifold.

 

As Miles said, the 2L Mi16/S16 engine is an absolute painless installation. No exhaust modifications are necessary.

[petert 560]

i asked Petert on here how much he charges for a re-angle exhaust plate ($165 +30 postage!! seems exsessive for an ally plate)

 

Just the raw material alone for the plate costs $20! Then add milling/machining time etc. It takes one hour to make the tapered washers. Then another half an hour to make the studs. And you think $165 is excessive! I'm lucky if I make $40 out of them. How much do you charge an hour? A friend suggested I should be charging $250!

[jas-E 1]

QEP Exhaust Manifold Angling Plate Kit £70

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

QEP Exhaust Manifold Angling Plate Kit £70

 

And the Auzzie conversion rate is about $2.2AUS to the pound, making PeterT's price perfectly reasonable ($165AUS).

 

The shipping from Aus is ofcourse not required from QEP, but there'll still be some P&P.

 

Rich

[matt-k 0]

Once again i am supprised, No, humbled at the torrent of knolledge i find before me upon these pages! It seems petert's price is not excessive at all and hes right about the amount of work that must go in to making these items. Well done that man.

I know im best of buying one of these from petert or QEP but i do enjoy having ago at making things myself & as im in no hurry to finish it would be appreciated if anyone could let me know the angle of the plate, then i could get a blank plate cut and do the rest of the work myself (or at least attempt it!!)

 

Thanks again everyone for the input, Matt.

[maturin23 10]

Not sure if the QEP set has the angled washers.

 

My conversion experience using a cut, re-angled and strengthed Mi16 manifold (bought from someone on here a couple of years ago who was doing them himself - sure it was £50 exchange), an Arvin downpipe and a standard Group N exhaust was that it all screwed together pretty well.

 

I could do with losing an inch in exhaust length (but not quite enough to actually do it!), and the bottom angle of the downpipe is an inch or so lower than standard, but it works well enough with no cracks in the manifold.

 

I'm aware that exactly the same set-up on another conversion just wouldn't fit and required modifcation to the downpipe. I had previously had a the same manifold but with a standard pug exhaust and it hung perceptibly lower and needed quite a lot of shortening - I never really sorted it but the replacement Group N has worked a treat.

 

I think it's a question of sucking and seeing

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well I admire you for (at least) wanting to have a go. There is a thread I found, which I can't locate right now for an Australian 205/Mi16 conversion (sounds like I'm biased but I'm not) which explained the wedge plate he made to make the downpipe clear the bulkhead.

 

He had his plasma cut, and it included the dimensions in thickness difference (top to bottom) rather than the angle required. I'd search the web for Mi16 conversion (like I did when I started on this road to ruin....I mean immense fun ) and see if you can find it.

 

As I said earlier however, all of your work involved in searching, measuring, sourcing material and someone to do it, only then to walk into new problems like needing different studs and/or angled washers to make the nuts seat flat, could begin to defeat the object of saving cash.

 

Whilst I admire the effort from you Matt K, you expected advice when you started this thread, so I'm giving mine to you. Feel free to ignore it though of course.

 

Matt at QEP and PeterT (to scratch the surface) have solutions for this 'off-the-shelf' for a reason. The problem needs a 'work round', and they've done the leg work for it. I doubt whether any of the angling solutions make these guys much money as PeterT said. A new 4-2-1 manifold could be as much as £350 to solve the problem, so I ask you to consider some cost perspective here.

 

The challenge ahead of you IF you choose to do it yourself, may not be worth the reward you're trying to get.

 

Well, you did ask. And it is a forum.

 

Rich

Edited June 17, 2007 by DrSarty

[James_m 0]

I admire Petert admitting the wedges arent suitable for every car. The QEP wedge certainly isnt......

If i was doing it again, i think id trial fit the standard manifold in car, then work out what the angle needs to be changed to in order to suit the specific car.

However, im intruiged that the S16 manifolds clear without problems....

Can anybody comment on if it would be as suitable attached to an alloy 1.9 16v, or if it only works due to the taller height of the XU10?

[Alastairh 47]

However, im intruiged that the S16 manifolds clear without problems

 

It does, im one of the handful of people on this forum that have tried all 3 major engine conversions and can talk from experience (Mi, S16, GTI6). Peter is quite right the S16 is a doddle to fit, it would be straight bolt on except fitting a lamba probe, which takes 10 minutes and a 50p nut

 

Personally, id go with QEP or Peter, as they've done all the home work, trial and error and alot of time investing, and besides we should support these people as there the people that keeps this forum online!

 

Alastair

[James_m 0]

Alastair, does it have more clearance than a 1.9 mi16 converted with the wedge?

If it clears and the head is sitting 10mm higher in the car, im thinking it may be perfect more my 'unique' shell

Pretty sure a mate has an S16 manifold lying around too....

I will definetly try this, and report back the outcome.

Wedges and reangled manifolds could be a thing of the past!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The iron manifold from the S16 I doubt would fit the 1.9 head due to the stud location's or at least drilling holes in it and then because the engine is lower again the angle would be wrong so some downpipe mods would have to be done at the very least.

But the S16 engine and std manifold clears the tunnel the same as a std 8v one,

[James_m 0]

Ah, i forgot the stud patterns are different Ignore all of the above then!