Front Brake Setup 205 Gti Road Rally Car

[joni 0]

I have a 205 gti 1.6 car with bendix calipers and some half decent brembo grooved discs.

 

I need to improve the brake pedal feel and get some decent pads. So i was wondering.... should i upgrade the discs / calipers and pads or should i stick with the current set up and get some new pads?

 

I DON'T want to spend a fortune(!) so anything i do will have to be second hand in terms of calipers.

 

Are there any bolt on systems from 405's for instance or 306's that offer improved braking? OR... would people recommend sticking with the current setup?

 

Is it worth fitting braided hoses and does it really improve pedal feel?

 

Any help much appreciated.

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

get some 266mm discs and calipers as found on various 306's (2.0 xsi, s16) and some ZX's etc. Then use a 23mm master cylinder as found on a lot of peugeots and citreons. Just make sure its a 4 port non abs one. Coupled with braided hoses you should find you get minimal pedal travel and plenty of feel.

[joni 0]

Are they 1 pot calipers?

[pdd144c 0]

Yes they are, you could also look at 283mm GTi-6/180 calipers and discs. Fit some decent pads and fluid also, Mintex 1166 pads would be ideal.

[Craigb 2]

For comparison my brake development has been

 

STD 1.9 brakes ( cook them on the twisty bits )

 

Std 1.9 brakes with M1155 (OK but stated to see some fade on longer sections)

 

206 180 GTI std (283 mm 26mm thick discs better than before and only managed to get fade once)

 

206 180 GTI with DS2500 ( not tried yet as in the middle of re preparing the car for the next round)

 

The main disadvantage with the 283mm set up is the weight of the calipers , as they are quite chunky.

 

In hind sight I would have liked to have tried carbon metallic pads on the std 1.9 brakes . I had these on my GpA 106 and they were magnificent ( although they did eat discs)

[jonah 1]

Have a read of the posts here by kenp and Rob Thomson, which I wholeheartedly agree with:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...st&p=684286

 

The only caliper upgrade I would recommend is from 1.6 (Bendix) calipers to standard 1.9 (Girling) calipers, keeping the 1.6 hubs and discs... the performance is the same but they are a much better design and don't suffer the wear problems of the 1.6 calipers, which can give long pedal travel and all kinds of noises.

 

Re pads, I found 1144's to be up to the job for road rallying on a 1.6, and only faded on tarmac stages when running slicks when I was really standing on the brakes. I have yet to fade a set of 1155's (apart from running them in), so I'd say 1166 is probably overkill. Whatever you get just make sure you give them a proper heat cycle to break them in as they ALWAYS fade the first time they get hot!

[pdd144c 0]

Agree with Jonah about bedding the pads in... Have you ever run 1166's before Jonah? The difference in performance between them and the 1155's is quite noticeable, although the price reflects this in quite an extreme way!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

When I was running my 309 in std production class I kept the std Bendix calipers (which the main advantage on these is the weight) Nice and light as the cariers are Alloy compared to the Lump of Iron of the Girling one's, I ran Pagid RS4's and pure Iron Disc's and the pedal was good and as said on the Carbon l's the disc's tend to take more abuse than anything,

The 205's only a light car so nothing too extreme is needed

If you std Flexi Brake hoses are getting old this could lead to a longer pedal

[VisaGTi16v 1]

As the 1.9 calipers fit on 1.6 hubs if you retain the 1.6 discs and use the 1.9 bolts, can it work the other way? I will be going to 309 arms and hence hubs and driveshafts but if I could use my lighter 1.6 calipers still that would be preferable as I dont get any of the clunking etc ive read about although I do take them apart and wire brush, copper slip etc once a season.

[joni 0]

Thanks for the comments lads. Sounds like you'll save me some money by not changing the discs/calipers to gti 6 or whatever.

 

Like the idea of removing the compensator. I am presuming this is the thing down on the inner wing (near side thats about the size of a SMALL coke can? I would fit a bias valve - are they legal for MOT's and alike? Theres one on ebay at

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAKE-BIAS-PROPORTIO...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

which seems reasonable. Where abouts would i put this in relation to the brake lines? Just split the rear brake line and fit it in? I could locate it near the handbrake to allow changing while driving?

 

I was intending putting the rear brake line inside the car. I currently have a 1.6 master cylinder, bendix calipers at the front and a single brake line to the rear shoes.

 

I'm running 309 front shafts/wishbones and 309 rear beam. I have girling 1.9 calipers available and a 1.9 master cylinder as well. So adding these variables in to the pot can anybody suggest my best options:

 

1. Calipers bendix (lighter supposedly, cheaper pads) or girling (better design supposedly)?

2. Master cylinder 1.6 or 1.9?

3. New rubber hoses or new braided hoses?

4. Pads?! Perhaps i'll try the DS2500 (which are cheaper than m1155's or look into these carbon metallics?

[SPGTi 2]

I run Carbon Lorraine pads with 1.9 calipers on my 1.9 8v road rally car. I only ever use motor factor discs. Bed them in well and I never get brake judder, the discs are also way cheaper than the pads so I change them quite regularly (I paid £18 a pair last time). The stopping power is more than good enough, even from cold. The pads do squeal a bit when driving "normal" though.

Combined with braided hoses and good quality fluid I find this a lot better than the 206gti setup I had on for a couple of road rallies.

 

Steve

[jonah 1]

Like the idea of removing the compensator. I am presuming this is the thing down on the inner wing (near side thats about the size of a SMALL coke can? I would fit a bias valve - are they legal for MOT's and alike? Theres one on ebay at

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAKE-BIAS-PROPORTIO...1QQcmdZViewItem

which seems reasonable.

 

Yes the compensator is the thing on the inner wing. You can replace it with an adjustable valve if you want to experiment with the brake bias, they are fine for the MOT. But don't get that ebay one, that's the one I had last year and it was rubbish - it stopped working within weeks of fitting. I stripped it down and it is poorly engineered and machined internally, one of the rubber seals was badly deformed and split.

 

Where abouts would i put this in relation to the brake lines? Just split the rear brake line and fit it in? I could locate it near the handbrake to allow changing while driving?

Yep that's where mine is (along with the hydraulic handbrake)

 

1. Calipers bendix (lighter supposedly, cheaper pads) or girling (better design supposedly)?

2. Master cylinder 1.6 or 1.9?

3. New rubber hoses or new braided hoses?

1. Up to you - if you're not having any problems with the Bendix calipers then stick with them. I don't know how much weight difference there is with the Girling ones but doubt you'd notice it (I couldn't).

2. 1.6 (or 1.9 with one of the ports blanked off, which is exactly the same)

3. Debatable whether there's any significant improvement in pedal travel with braided hoses but I would fit them anyway for durability.

[Craigb 2]

I finally got round to bedding my DS2500's in last night and the Carbon Metallics on the rear .

 

After the procedure of 30 -0 50 -0 and 70 -0 heat cycle runs. I left them to cool down as suggested.

 

And i am really impressed , the pedal is firmer and more precise , the level of effort to modulate is less and more controllable.

 

I was playing around with the rear valve to set it so that the rears are doing a little bit more as well , setting it so that they don't lock first but are actually doing something .

 

One benefit from this setting was that at last i have an instantaneous hand brake. I couldn't determine whether it was due to the new setting , or the new pads , but i suspect a combination of the two .

 

The only downsides i have noticed are the fronts have a slight squeal under light braking and that the Carbons on the back create a hell of a lot of dust .

 

But hey who cares as long as you can stop after a 20 mile section

[Chris H 10]

I've just put DS3000 pads on my 306 s16 and they are really good but also have the squeal on light breaking....never mind its not a problem when your flat out!