Rear Arms On 205

[midnight motorsport 0]

i have a new rebuilt rear beam, it is a 309 gti item, there is still play in the n/s even though the hole thing including radius arm tubes, have been replaced, this has pi**ed me off a lot,

 

i am going to strip the thing down again, and look to making some bronze outer bushes,

 

but at the same time if there is any difference? i will look into fitting a set of 306/zx radius arms?

 

as well as a larger anti roll bar, maybe a modded 306 item?

 

so really what my question is, what differences are there between the 306/zx arms, and 205/309 ones?

 

cheers

 

jay

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

• ZX arms have 1' negative camber built in & 0mm toe.
  
• 306 arms have 1'20m negative camber & 4.2mm toe in for the S16 & GTi-6.
  
• 1'20m negative & 4.2mm toe in for other 306's.
  
• 309 GTi has 0' camber & 3.8mm 86-90 or 1'15m negative camber with 5.0mm toe in for 90 on inc GTi-16.
  
• 205 GTi arms have 0' negative camber & 3.6mm toe in.
  

Graham.

[Rob_the_Sparky 10]

Graham, that info should be posted up somewhere.

 

Also - I'm amazed that there is so much toe in at the rear. It would feel nasty with anything approaching that on the front, how can that be OK at the rear???

 

Rob

[Sandy 191]

It's been up for ages!

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...6644&hl=toe

[Scottieb 0]

so which ones would give the most progressive lift off oversteer characteristics? and is there any difference in track width between the arms?

 

Scott

[max0 5]

so which ones would give the most progressive lift off oversteer characteristics? and is there any difference in track width between the arms?

 

Scott

 

with the difference in camber etc would uneven tyer wear be a issue?

[Alastairh 47]

Should be a good thing really.

 

Even my rear passenger tyre is quite well scrubbed right on the edge with alot of use, and one of Pauls arb's!, So should have alot more surface area in theory!

 

Hopfully i should be chucking these arms on in the next couple of weeks on mine

Edited June 5, 2007 by Alastairh

[Anthony 1,003]

To give you some impression of what the camber from ZX rear arms looks like, here's a picture of the back of my 205 that's running a 309 beam with ZX 16v arms...

 

[Rob_the_Sparky 10]

It's been up for ages!

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...6644&hl=toe

 

Was thinking in a pinned topic or article really as this looks like essential reading

 

To give you some impression of what the camber from ZX rear arms looks like, here's a picture of the back of my 205 that's running a 309 beam with ZX 16v arms...

 

That would be a wide arsed pug 205

[funkymofo 0]

I wonder how many people look at that and think the rear beam is shagged

 

How do you rate that set-up Anthony?

[midnight motorsport 0]

• ZX arms have 1' negative camber built in & 0mm toe.
  
• 306 arms have 1'20m negative camber & 4.2mm toe in for the S16 & GTi-6.
  
• 1'20m negative & 4.2mm toe in for other 306's.
  
• 309 GTi has 0' camber & 3.8mm 86-90 or 1'15m negative camber with 5.0mm toe in for 90 on inc GTi-16.
  
• 205 GTi arms have 0' negative camber & 3.6mm toe in.
  

Graham.

 

graham, was it you that had some bronze bushes made for your rear beam? if so how did they work out?

 

if it was'nt sorry, do you know who it was?

 

cheers. jay

[Baz 421]

so which ones would give the most progressive lift off oversteer characteristics? and is there any difference in track width between the arms?

 

Scott

 

I have a look through the wheel alignment data I have, and found some interesting results, here's a summary:

 

Year--Model--Rear toe in (mm)--Rear negative camber(degrees/minutes)

 

1985-92--205 GTi 1.6+1.9/Rallye--3.60--0/50

 

1985-92--205+309 base--3.10--0/50

 

1993on--205 Cab+van+base--3.40--0/50

 

1986-90--309GTi--3.80--0/50

 

1990-93--309GTi+GTi16S--5.00--1/15

 

1994on--306 S16+GTi6--4.20--1/20

 

1997on--306 1.8 16v--3.40--1/20

 

1998on Xsara base--4.50--1/20

 

1998on Xsara VTS--5.00--1/20

 

1993on ZX base+16v--0.00-1/00

 

Quite suprised to see that the ZX has no rear toe in, unusual on FWD!

 

 

Rear toe in generally induces straightline stability and increases dulls the turn-in response. Conversely though it serves to pre-load the outside rear once you'r cornering at a steady state, which evens out the front and rear slip angles slightly. The Honda Preludes with 4WS, toe the outside rear out on the entry to improve turn in, then toe the wheel in slightly as the car settles.

Road FWD cars usually have a degree of rear toe in for the stability, it acts like a tail fin on the rear end if you like. Competition cars however often run parallel for the improve tun in reaction.

 

 

So from that i'd deduce that ZX arms are ideal for the 0 toe in, perhaps not for road car, perhaps something with some toe-in would be better for someone wanting it for a road car.

[Sandy 191]

Basically, but it depends on how the front end and springs are working etc etc, it's not that finite.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

graham, was it you that had some bronze bushes made for your rear beam? if so how did they work out?

Yes it is me, I have had the phosphur bronze bushes fitted to my car for the last two years + so far no problems what so ever.

 

Just having trouble finding the material to make any more.

 

Graham.

[brianthemagical 1]

so will all the above radius arms fit 205/309 tubes and arb's/tb's? thanks.

[Baz 421]

so will all the above radius arms fit 205/309 tubes and arb's/tb's? thanks.

 

Yes, they're all interchangable. Nick the Arb's off the donor cars and use them too. they'll neeed cutting down to fit in a 205 or 309 beam though.

[brianthemagical 1]

they'll neeed cutting down to fit in a 205 or 309 beam though.

 

i take it there just cut in the middle and re welded? i don't think it would be neccesary for more than an std 309 set up for me as i've got a standard front at the mo. thanks.

[midnight motorsport 0]

To give you some impression of what the camber from ZX rear arms looks like, here's a picture of the back of my 205 that's running a 309 beam with ZX 16v arms...

 

 

Anthony how does your car feel on the road? i have a standard rebuilt 309 rear beam, all new front suspension, and sprintline shocks all round, and my car handles really bad, its so vauge on turn in, feels really horrible, no feedback at all, getting horrible bump steer, especially on fast cornering, the car feels like it steering from the rear, sort of wallows down the road, quite dissapointing

 

im trying to sorce the problem, and was wondering if a wider rear track can cause some funny charicteristics to go on? cant see how but, just thought id ask,

 

cheers

 

jay

Edited June 11, 2007 by midnight motorsport

[Baz 421]

i take it there just cut in the middle and re welded? i don't think it would be neccesary for more than an std 309 set up for me as i've got a standard front at the mo. thanks.

 

They're cut down to size and re-splined. 205Parts can do this for around £75 iirc.

[James_R 3]

I'm running 309 front running gear and zx rear arms but on a 205 width rear beam. the turn in on the car is very sharp, but it's does drift about a little on motorways. As for hard cornering on track, the tail seems to slide out about 5-10degs and then go round, it's an odd sensation to start with, but you get comfortable with it. I'm also getting pretty even tyre wear on track

 

All in I'm happy with them