Car Stalls After Hot + Error 42 On Ecu After Upgrade Mi16

[lee-bg 0]

Hello,

 

I am searching for any clues on my problem. Let me explain in details

the car (originally 1,9i 8v DKZ) was upgraded to Mi16 1,9 16V DFW engine. (with cat and pink)

I use mi16 ECU + put 2 new cables to ECU connector for pink sensor and idle vale. They seem to work.

I also need to mention i retained the coil from 8v and connected it to mi16 distributor cap (which is new). ECU temp sensor is also new. sparks new, cables are old from the mi16. Injectors are cleaned on machine. Also electrician fixed the old injector and coil installation because it was falling apart and attached new cables there (near injectors connectors, etc). AFM device is from 1,9i 8v. seem to work

Lambda is from 1,9i 8v engine. But with or without it same problems. see below.

 

now the problems :

The car starts well and display (almost all the time but changes while driving at different revs) immediately error code 42 (injectors ??) on the Bosch motronic 1.3 (161 last numbers) ECU.

Also it runs perfect , revs to 7200 but after it gets hot (aroung temp 95 C) the car begins to stall terribly and most of the time dies. Then i can only start/run it if i wait some time and/or open the hood. Then again after it tends to get hot it dies/stalls.

Could be the coil from the 8v that i use ? or may be overheating coil ? or may be ECU is f***ed up ?

Any advise is appreaciated greatly.

 

p.s. Also idle is bad (around 750) when car is at operating temp.

[cybernck 403 1 Cars]

change (or spray with WD40 first) the injection/ECU relay, one of these in the bottom right corner of the pic:

 

 

it should be green and the other one is for horn, so you can easily find out which one is it.

 

that should get it sorted.

 

hope this helps .

[lee-bg 0]

thanks man. i will try first thing on the morning.

After some reading on the forum here i also now suspect the ignition module...may be overheating ?

the mi16 is generating a lot more heat than the 8V before. although the ignition module used to work in previous engine, but this error code 42 on ECU confuses me.

It appears only on mi16 ECU and not on 8v ECU. "Stall" is both ECUs.

Edited June 2, 2007 by lee-bg

[Richie-Van-GTi 74 2 Cars]

is the ign amp mounted in area prone to heat? Also is it mounted on a plate using thermal paste to dissipate the heat?

[cybernck 403 1 Cars]

well i suggested that relay straight away as i've had exactly the same symptoms

with my XU9JAZ in wet weather and especially winters. mysteriously, sometimes

my spare ECU would cure it but later i found out that it's down to the bad contact

of that relay... and WD40 came to the rescue .

 

btw, is your ignition amp mounted on an aluminium heatsink?

[lee-bg 0]

good question...to which i dont know the answer. I will check tomorrow.

 

btw, my heatshield on the exhaust manifold is missing so that must be generating lot of extra heat.

I just couldnt fit the original one in the "bulk".

[lee-bg 0]

The ignition module is near the exhaust manifold and its very very hot there, although its radiator (of ign. module) is attached to it but everything is in oil and dirt.

Also there seems to be only 3 green relays which are in a box under the front wing. I checked and they seem ok. Another interesting is i found some kind of big brown relay box. with 7-8 pins. It sits near the ECU at the back side of the engine compartment. No idea what it is for. And i am still worried about that error code 42 (injectors???) on the ECU which shows all the time.

When cold - the car runs ..almost normal. It gets warm very fast and then things go wrong again.

 

p.s. i guess it may have been a bad idea to use the 1,9 8v wiring and the HT Coil after all ))

Edited June 3, 2007 by lee-bg

[cybernck 403 1 Cars]

well, here's what the standard DFW Mi16 (XU9JAZ) fuel/relay box looks like:

 

 

 

green is for injectors and brown for the ECU itself.

 

 

anyway, since you're using the XU9JAZ loom, it shouldn't concern you as you've kept

the existing relays - one of the greens is for the ECU and the yellow one in the glovebox

by the ECU is for the fuel pump (unless you don't have that one and one of the other

green ones is for that).

 

 

when the engine stops running and doesn't want to restart, you need to check what is it

that you're not getting - spark or fuel - or both as i think it will be. i also suggest that you

mix up those three green relays (if they're exactly the same) and then see if it will run.

 

this is one of those errors you just have to track down by elimination .

 

and can you show me any pics of the "big brown relay box" and the green relays too?

 

 

btw, XU9JAZ coil works fine on XU9J4Z - i've tried.

 

well, it has been "missing" a bit but i'm sure that was down to the coil itself.

[lee-bg 0]

Thanks for helping out. I appreciate it.

I will take pictures of the relay boxes and post it. It may differ than what i see on the pics.

 

Another funny thing i discovered, when car is warm and starts making the problems

if i open/close the bonnet its revs go down and almost dies. i.e. the same stall but on idle. I checked the bonnet but didnt see any wires that it touches, etc. So i am clueless but definetely opening closing the bonnet makes the problem.

[lee-bg 0]

this is the big brown relay and it sits near the ECU in the engine compartment. ECU is at back of battery. For sure it controls fuel pump and may be ECU. It may be new version (all in one) of what i see above on your pics.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

The brown relay is the double injection relay that replaces the green & brown ones from cyberncks pictures.

 

Error code 42 is injector valve control but I'm not sure what might be causing it. Are all the injector plugs on securely/ properly? If they are can you try a different relay to see if it is a relay problem?

 

Graham.

[lee-bg 0]

thanks a lot. So basically the car be run with that double relay ...or not ? i mean it starts and works

i have to try with injection valves from my old 1,9 8v engine and see if error stays ...also to attach a different coil as i suspect current one makes problems under load/heat.

i was thinking to get the whole loom out, because of that double relay. do you think its worth it to dismantle the loom and trace the important ignition/voltage/relay cabling ? may be also double check if that "double relay" has same function/pins as the 2 relays on the picture above.

Edited June 4, 2007 by lee-bg

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

The car should work fine with that relay if it is wired in correctly.

 

Personally I haven't seen a 205 that has had one of these fitted as standard but I have to admit I've only seen one or maybe two CAT M1.3 205's here in the Uk & never worked on one.

 

I doubt the problem will be the injectors themselves but a plug that isn't clipped on properly or has a pushed back pin / broken wire. If you have had an electrician fix some of the loom near the injectors he might have mixed a wire up which is causing these problems.

 

Graham.

[lee-bg 0]

I tore apart today half of the loom near the injectors, ht coil, etc. It appears the idle air valve motor was wired incorectly. i.e. its ECU wire went to injectors "+" wire instead of ECU and the other wire went to ECU instead of injectors '+" wire for 'live feed". This could definetely cause error 42 in ECU.

Its funny how the Idle air valve worked when it was wired incorrectly according to my books.

 

Also injectors 1+2 go to pin 16 of ECU , but they were connected to pin 17 of ECU , where (by my books) injectors 3+4 need to go. The other wire of each injector (join together) goes where it should go in the relay.

So now i am too exhausted , but tomorrow i will attach everything as it should be. Also layout the sensor cables in a better way.

Wish me luck guys and i hope that was all that made the trouble.

 

p.s. also the relay works perfect with Mi16. it appears on new cars its just 1 double relay but its just like the 2 relays on mi16.

 

Edited June 5, 2007 by lee-bg

[lee-bg 0]

Rewired the idle air valve, checked injector cables - they are all ok.

Fixed few broken wires/connectors on the way, fixed a distorted 'earth' 2 small wires.

Put a new ignition module+heat sink. Checked all main 'earth' - one is on the car wing, the other to the gearbox bolt (left side). All seems well with connections. Disconnected the 2 valves for fuel vapours (which go to inlet from tank). etc. etc.

 

and bloody car, again i have the Error 42 on the ECU screen and again i see it making problem when its warm and mostly under load. At different REVs it just cuts out /stalls for a second then continues.

Although it makes the problems less than before, but still makes it. Bloody car (again). I am waiting for my new ignition lead set, new HT Coil for mi16 (current one is from 1,9 8v) and a spare set of injectors to test.

Edited June 8, 2007 by lee-bg

[lee-bg 0]

ok, there is light in the tunnel )

after a lot of changing in the car - all the parts basically.

The ECU turn came ))

I switched and tested with another ECU and .... guess what everything is fine.

So my ECU seems to have faulty injector control circuit for some reason.

Bought new ECU and so far car runs fine. now i have to disassemble the old faulty ECU and try to fix it may be dry joint or cold.

Edited July 9, 2007 by lee-bg