Ignition Timing For Hi Power Hi Capacity Mi16 Engine

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

As my mapper is installing a new rollingroad atm. I have really no clue about what to set my ignition timing at.

 

Attached with this post is a map I just made now, as I wanted to advance the whole curve a little compared to last time I drove the car (I've got test-plates for it tonight and tomorrow).

 

I'm pretty sure this map is very safe and much more power can be had by advancing it, but I would really like to see if any of you guys running Emerald and high power Mi16 with lairy camshafts could send me your map or put it online as a pic like I did in this post.

 

LAst time I only ran 21 degrees advance at WOT and still it would wheelspin 3'rd gear (Mi16 gearbox) with A048 semislicks and a Quaife ATB

 

[petert 586]

I think you're robbing yourself of a lot of power/torque. I'd try this. It's still very conservative but would need to be still mapped on the dyno.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Yeah, I'm well aware I'm robbing myself for quite some power, but don't want it to start detonating either

 

Is that map from a TPS og MAP based setup?

 

Emerald apparently is non-linear so it's finer resolution on the first half of throttle-travel. So not too sure how to convert it if it's not from an emerald actually. Although the WOT figures can be copied easily

 

What I'm most concerned over now is that the thing is so uncontrollable when the diff starts working, pulls from side to side

[petert 586]

Sorry that was MAP. Try this one. It's still very tame. You won't detonate at 26 degrees. I'm assuming you're running at least 98 ron and you've verified that 10 degrees in the software is 10 degrees mechanically, with a timing light? BDA Cosworths run a fixed 30 deg. at all RPM with 12.5:1, and they make power to 9000.

Edited May 3, 2007 by petert

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Sorry that was MAP. Try this one. It's still very tame. You won't detonate at 26 degrees. I'm assuming you're running at least 98 ron and you've verified that 10 degrees in the software is 10 degrees mechanically, with a timing light? BDA Cosworths run a fixed 30 deg. at all RPM with 12.5:1, and they make power to 9000.

 

Ok, thanks again, I might try that.

 

I've not veridied anything about the true ignition timing, but I'm running the standard pickup on flywheel/gearbox and using bosch spec which is that the missing teeth will pass 120 deg BTCD. Shouldn't that be correct?

[petert 586]

I'm running the standard pickup on flywheel/gearbox and using bosch spec which is that the missing teeth will pass 120 deg BTCD. Shouldn't that be correct?

 

No, probably not. If the software doesn't have a tick box to override the ignition maps, set everything to 0 degrees. Verify mechanically (with a dial indicator down the plug hole) where TDC is. Set an external timing mark, either on the flywheel or the harmonic balancer. Start the engine and verify with a timing light that it's firing at TDC. If not, adjust your setup page in the software so it does. Only then would I confident to start playing with the ignition timing. Of course it really doesn't matter on the dyno, as the operator will adjust the timing for maximum torque at various load points and hopefully, listen for detonation.

[sutol 0]

I've done a lot of experimenting over the years with timing but mostly with distributers. I suppose that electronic is more or less the same but better in that it is more precise in its controlability.

Anyway, I think that you will have no trouble advancing up to 30 degrees and a little above if it does not pink.

I once ran a wild cam race Mini which had 25 degrees at 1200/1500 rpm to make it run smooth and total advance of 33 degrees with a ten to one compression ratio. It drove like a road car at low revs.

 

I also ran a standard 1.9 GTI with a total advance of 32 degrees and it went very well indeed.

 

So dont worry about detonation at anything below 30 degrees, as long as everything else is set up then you really nead as much advance as you can get away with without pinking.

That is my experience and opinion

[petert 586]

The onset of pinging is not necessarily the optimum advance angle. The optimum is where it makes the most torque. The more efficient the combustion, the less advance it will need. An 8V head with less than ideal combustion chamber, spark plug in the wrong place, is probably a poor comparison. I'd be very surprised if it needs more than 28 degrees, more likely 25-26.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

The onset of pinging is not necessarily the optimum advance angle. The optimum is where it makes the most torque. The more efficient the combustion, the less advance it will need. An 8V head with less than ideal combustion chamber, spark plug in the wrong place, is probably a poor comparison. I'd be very surprised if it needs more than 28 degrees, more likely 25-26.

 

I've now adjusted the timing to 124 deg BDC, but it might well be that 120 is the correct (as that's what it's supposed to be from peugeot), and that my TDC marks on the flywheel and gearboxhousing is wrong.

 

At least it didn't pull as hard now with that setting, so guess it retarded everything 4 degrees.

 

It's getting pressure in the watersystem though, so maybe the block has cracked already