Specific Track Set-up.

[cossie350 0]

Sorry to bring up yet another suspension tread but after doing a search i am really none the wiser, i think Ive cracked it and then read a post and all my theories go out the window.

 

My car is just about ready for its first trackday only thing left is the suspension, i will be doing 95% of my trackdays at Cadwell(if this makes a difference) and the car will not be used on the road, what i have so far is :

 

1.9 gti with S16 conversion.

Stripped with cage and battery relocated to boot.

206 gti brakes.

Re-built 309 rear beam with solid mounts and 306 trailing arms.

Fiberglass bonnet and boot.

 

I will be using road legal slicks.

 

I am unsure what to do with the rear as i thought the 309 beam giving wider track and was the better option but have read that the 205 is more suitable for track use ? I am aware that a new ARB and TB's are a must and are available for both 205 and 309 beams. So the question for the rear is 205 or 309 beam and what thickness ARB and TB's.

 

Now for the front I'm thinking down the route of Bilstein coilovers with eccentric (spelling) top mounts is this the way forward ? I'm also unsure of whether to use 309 wishbones and driveshafts, as i will have the eccentric top mounts for adjustment would i be better to stick with the 205 wishbones for the narrower track on the front ? Springs i was thinking about 200lbs.

 

All bushes will be replaced and will be getting a lsd, money isn't to much of an issue within reason as I'm obviously not competing.

 

Any advise would be much appreciated and without sounding a pr**k could you only reply if you have had experience with the above on track as this is what starts confusing me reading the other posts .

 

Many Thanks

 

Rick

[smckeown 1]

you could try looking at what other track and race cars are running. My setup is listed on my website, It's amazing as far as i'm concerned, had good feedback from other experienced track go-ers

[SPGTi 2]

The only think I would say is maybe look at different options to the Bilstein coilovers. I may be wrong but you will probably be limited to what inserts you can run and they will be non adjustable. The PTS Bilstein setup is more rally orientated.

AST seem to be a decent setup and then depending on budget look at coilovers with remote reservoirs. AVO have started doing them (not sure on quality) or the ulimate a full Proflex setup.

 

Steve

[Garry 1]

I have driven Cadwell a few times as it is my local track. I see you are not far from me.

 

People say the 205 beam is more suited to track use because the back end is more mobile, and a decent driver will be able to exploit that. I prefer the more planted feel of the 309 beam personally. There isn't alot of run off at cadwell, especially through the mountain, hence I prefer the stability. Depends on what you like and how experienced you are a track driving..... Don't forget we all 'think' we are good drivers!

 

With regards to the 309 front set up I would say to go with for it even if you get the top mounts.

 

I would say give the track a go and then see how you feel afterwards. For reference here is a guide to my progress:

 

First Visit:

1:57ish laps with GTI6 brakes, GTI6 lump, Bilstein Sprintline Susp, 205 beam and arms, Toyo T1-s Tyres.

 

Third visit:

1:55 Laps with ATB diff, weld in cage, Mintex M1155 pads, 309 beam and arms, GrpA mounts and 25mm rear ARB.

 

Fourth visit

1:52 laps Toyo R888 tyres.

 

Although the car has evolved quite alot, I feel alot more confident myself, which probably accounts for a fair amount of the time gained. The times are from reviewing video footage, not timing on the day.

 

Hope this helps.

[petert 587]

Just make the rear as stiff and as wide as you can. Then match the front spring rates to suit.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

You're not racing it so I would just go with what you've got and then make adjustments that you can feel from trackday to trackday, otherwsie you may prefer one setup to another without actually trying it.

[cossie350 0]

Well a massive thanks to every bodies input , some good info there and its interesting to see Garry how your mods/experience have brought your times down 5 seconds may not sound alot to some but all that have replied here will know that that is a lifetime on track. I'm in no major hurry so will come watch the guys at Cadwell in July to compare there setups. CW you've got a good point there i may just stiffen the rear for now as I'm fed up with the understeer and then do a mod/trackday at a time.

 

Thanks again, much appreciated .

 

Rick.

[veloce200 3]

Just make the rear as stiff and as wide as you can. Then match the front spring rates to suit.

? without increasing front track?

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

CW you've got a good point there i may just stiffen the rear for now as I'm fed up with the understeer and then do a mod/trackday at a time.

 

Thanks again, much appreciated .

 

Rick.

 

I'd recommend just getting a fatter anti roll bar.

 

I'm going to Cadwell but I'm more interested in seeing how it drives after not been driven for a year!!

[smckeown 1]

I'm fed up with the understeer and then do a mod/trackday at a time.

 

Worth checking your tracking/toe settings, you could be running tow in. Changes to straight/toe out could make that a lot better for track work

[Kev-G 1]

I'd recommend just getting a fatter anti roll bar.

 

Get a nice adjustable rear bar from Whiteline:

 

Whiteline ARB

[Anulfo 22]

Get a nice adjustable rear bar from Whiteline:

 

Whiteline ARB

Bilstein coilovers is a nice setup and pretty affordable cash,make sure you get the tarmac inserts and springs though.You can adjust the ride height on these too.309 wishbones is a good mod too as it gives you decent neg camber but if you want to be able to adjust the camber then you will need the group A wishbones that you can adjust and they are around £500 a pair.I suppose the daddy of suspension set ups is the 3-way proflex setup......now that aint cheap!!!!

[Batfink 201]

I would want stiffer than 200lb springs on the front too. Brothers 205 rallye has 275lb and it could go a lot stiffer...

[niklas 1]

I would want stiffer than 200lb springs on the front too. Brothers 205 rallye has 275lb and it could go a lot stiffer...

 

I'm using 900lb springs this season

 

 

I would go for something like this:

Front: 309 wishbones, 309 arb (1), eccentric top mounts, 600-1000 lb springs depending on track surface (1)

Rear: 205/309 beam (2) is a matter of filosophy and liking, the stiffest (3) tbs and arb available, zx arms (4) for 0 toe and -1 camber

 

Reasons:

1. Even with 309 wishbones and ecc top mounts you can only get 2.5-3 deg of camber. Looking at the cambergain of the 205 McP suspension we are in the range 0.1 deg per 1 deg of roll. So the priority is to limit roll! That's the reason for a stiff front arb and as much spring as the track surface allows!

2. The narrower track makes for a nippier handling. It also makes it easier to meet Mr Armco

3. Can't really get stiff enough in the rear.

4. A little camber doesn't hurt for a more even tyre temp and 0 toe makes for an interesting behaviour. Haven't tried it myself yet but it sounds exciting, especially with a stiff 205 beam

[gtimon 0]

I've been toying with the idea of doing a rear coilover like they do on MK I/II Escorts.

 

With maybe using the Escort body kit modified to suit and then doing away with the torsion bar set-up and just have the swing arms with the ARB.

 

Anyone know if the has been done. ??

[eeyore 0]

Go for the 309 wishbones on the front with pts style billsteins (tarmac inserts) these have no adjustment but there real good, 2.5 deg negative camber and as much camber as you can get on with your accentric top mounts. ignore all the s*it people talk about 309 rear beams and get some 21mm bars for your 205 beam, with such a front heavy car you want a wider front track. dont over damp the rear end, (idealy turrets and vertical dampers) 1deg negative camber on the rear and zero toe, 1.5mm toe out on the front and 350lb springs 7" length so you can get the car low enough. and a gripper diff (plate pype)

[petert 587]

I mostly agree with eeyore. I run Bilsteins with 350lb x 6.5" (with helpers) front, 23mm rear bars, 3 deg. front camber, 1mm toe out front. I just need to heat & bend the rear arms to complete the package. All is a waste of time without a good cage.

Edited July 23, 2007 by petert

[eeyore 0]

sorry i meant as much caster as you can get on