[engine_work] Project Sarty

[smighall 1]

Won't attaching the water pipe to the sump cause issues with engine movement?

[welshpug 1,657]

doubt it, if you thing about the usual arrangement the rear hose takes up the movement, the way DrSarty has it the front hose takes up the movement instead.

 

not really a problem IMO when track cars run stiff mounts

[smighall 1]

Ah good point, kinda forgot about the rear hose.

[kyepan 291]

did you start it?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

did you start it?

 

No, but it did turn over on the starter, so I've got the wiring right; just no ECU. Anthony's been working away from home but should have it ready this week. NEXT WEEKEND = go go go!

[tom_m 0]

 

lop the locating studs off the bottom and whack a laguna splitter (or equivalent) on and its job done

[GLPoomobile 958]

NEXT WEEKEND = go go go!

 

Can you try not to rip the crotch out of yer kecks in all the excitement this time?

[M_R_205 5 1 Cars]

Personally id have the rad an inch higher, but that’s me and my mi16 is still sat on the garage floor thinking about what it’s done.... (or not done...)

 

I think I speak for everyone when I say im on the edge of my seat in anticipation!!!

[pronta 1]

God it's so close now I can't believe your not chompin at the bit. I'd be going mad with despair at not having it all there and going.

[carbers205 1]

Well Rich, if you've not been out for a drive in yours today it looks like i win!

Ive been rebuilding my 306 whilst you've been doing this and have used you not only for inspiration but as a mark of timescale too!

I hope you manage to get everything finished off to your liking before you go back on tour.

 

Andy

[kyepan 291]

any news? is it running?

[pronta 1]

I thought i'd bring you guys up to speed as richie has no internet connection at the mo....

 

He's been putting things in place , the air box and the oil breather all found homes today as did the last of the termination of the looms.

 

he's had a few issues understanding how he had wired up a switch and it was doing wierd (wired) things so much so he had to walk away.

 

the fuel pumps not doing as expected but he just needs to route the suspected fault and he reckons to be firing up at some point tomorrow.

 

He is at mine on thursday , friday and saturday night so he can post for himself from my pc and dump and vids or pics he has or not as the case may be !!

 

Guy

[kyepan 291]

Popped over to richy's yesterday, he's gutted it's not started yet, but it's nearly there so he's optimistic it's not far to go, I'll let him speak for himself as there is alot more detail. However the install looks nice in the flesh.

 

J

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Sorry for the delay guys, I have a huge amount going on in my life at the moment which I'll detail a little more in my 'Sh1t Happens - Afghan Diary' thread, which is only available in Natasha's and therefore only to members, as it's quite personal.

 

I'm off to Afghanistan again on Monday 5th May for another bleedin' 6 months, and regrettably with moving house and other....stuff, the car project took a back seat, although I did try my best. It all happened on the last day trying to start it when I had no time and began to rush.

 

The fuel pump issue was just a blown, but sneakily looking OK fuse. Easy fix. The switch issue was just my fan bypass, which was working perfectly but I just couldn't understand how I'd got it right and the switch lit up without the 12v wire attached. I had a moment, sorry.

 

The good news is that my good buddy and fellow forum member, off his own bat has simply said "I'll fetch it up here and I'll make it work". Good old Pronta. He's used Megasquirt before and is quite a whizz with motors, but more importantly has the time, the tools, less stress and a fresh pair of eyes to figure out why it isn't starting.

 

In some ways I am regretting using Megasquirt; in particular a second hand one. Beyond that, I really should have all of the gubbins such as multi-meter and MS stim to test the board etc to be confident it will work. I'm never one to give up, but in some ways I acknowledge Maxi's recent comment on going the known and trusted Omex/Emerald/DTA etc route, thus removing much risk. However, I also like a challenge and could achieve great things at a fraction of those costs.

 

Allow me to explain the current symptoms, what I think is wrong and how it should be fixed. The Megatune software shows 8 dials. I flashed successfully the new Megasquirt Extra code to the ECU, and the laptop (thanks Anthony) was talking perfectly with the ECU on start-up day. However, the lower row, second from left dial represents throttle position, and should reflect 0% to 100% (in 255steps) no to wide open throttle (WOT). However it was always showing a reading of 96.4%, flicking between 96.5% rapidly. This means the ECU believes the engine's at WOT and therefore is probably going in to 'Flood Control/Protection' mode, and thus providing little to no fuel to start the engine.

 

I was exceptionally diligent in checking the GTi6 TPS with a borrowed multi-meter to define the 3 pins/wires for 0, 5v ref & signal, so I'm confident I did that right. HOWEVER, the MS ECU shows the iffy, flickering reading whether the TPS is connected or not, and likewise shows the same reading when I try the 3 leads in the other combinations. Without the ECU accurately understanding throttle position, this baby will never run. So my current gut feeling is that the ECU has an error in the TPS circuit somewhere and that it is not in my loom.

 

Now I do still need to check if it's sparking, but the LS1 coils were certainly getting warm, which is positive. But without the TPS ECU reading making sense I can't hope to check if fueling is OK.

 

Ultimately I think the fix is simple. With Pronta's desire and offer to 'make it work' and me sending off the ECU to an MS expert with MS Stim etc to fully function check and possibly fault rectify the ECU, or even eliminate it at the cause, it is highly likely that Guy (Pronta) will get project Sarty running and get to drive it well before me. He's good like that; we've known each other for over 16 years.

 

ECU/Base Map settings I applied after a lot of research, were:

 

- Anthony's mod of 2 x 1k resistors to fire the LS1 coils (wasted spark) off of 2 of the 3 LED circuits (as per MS Extra site), which means the coils' ignitors see 5v and charge until it's pulled low/earthed. I believe this 'earth switching' circuit is correct after a detailed PM from PeteT. If anyone has other advice then please speak up to help Guy make this bugger work.

 

- MS settings of 60tooth, 2 missing teeth trigger wheel, with TDC at tooth 20 therefore (19 teeth x 6deg each) 114deg for first spark. The MS Extra site says these are 'typical Peugeot settings'. Also used 'going low - normal', output spark A on D14 and the LS1 coil dwell recommendations from the MS Extra site.

 

As it stands I've been trying to do too much in this troubled time. I am quite happy to leave it alone and start a-fresh when I return, but luckily my buddy Pronta will hopefully take the reigns, fault find, problem solve and make this wee beasty fire up.

 

Anyone who has any advice, please help us out.

 

Rich

Edited May 1, 2008 by DrSarty

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

sorry to hear you haven't managed to finish it off, after all the work done so far!

 

why don't you try using the onboard MAP sensor instead of TPS?

 

"typical peugeot settings" and MS-generated default map should get the car started, if everything else has been connected up right.

[smighall 1]

Not much help, but i'd be interested to see what you MS settings/MAP are, as i've just started to sort mine today.

[Doof 11]

Any news Sarty? I've decided to go the MS route now so should be interesting comparing our engines. Might be able to help each other with maps / settings too as the specs are quite similar.

 

I suppose the main differences are than mine will have PeterT's Stage 3 High lift inlet cam and Stage 1 exhaust cam...but yours has more CC and maybe a touch more compression...

 

Keep us posted.

[Sandy 191]

I mapped a MS2 extra recently using TPS load. I don't actually know what he changed, but the first time the guy brought it down, we couldn't make it start on TPS load for love nor money. I think it might have been the code though; I let him wade through all that in his own time and bring it back, after which is was mapped fairly quickly. Note to others though, the £150 or so he saved by buying the MS over a secondhand DTA/Emerald/KMS/Omex etc, was more than lost in the time it took to get it working. I was simply staggered by the possible variations in the codes etc that could inhibit easy progress. What a shame though, because theoretically, it could offer the functionality of far more expensive systems. I've seriously considered properly researching and educating myself into the world of MS, but while the potential saving is realistically only about £150-200, I serious wonder if it's worth it TBH.

 

Anyway... You ought to re-check the TPS wiring, it's such a common issue. The GTI6 TPS is:

Pin 1 0v

Pin 2 5v

Pin 3 Wiper

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

well i got it all wired up and running (on MAP-based load) with no problems .

 

to me it's a very cheap entry ticket to a world of mappable EMS in DIY fashion.

 

but if one is going to pay £200-300 or more for pro mapping and remapping,

then the purchase of a "proper" ECU would me more of a benefit than the

additional expense really.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The last two comments are all very true indeed.

 

I concluded the same about my MS, which I believe is either faulty or the plethora of options which do indeed make it mega flexible also make it easy to self create the set-up difficulties enjoyed by Sandy's customer and myself.

 

I am now back in the UK on R&R, and, as I have the money, I WANT TO LOCATE (hint hint) A 2nd HAND DTA, OMEX or EMERALD (please - cash waiting).

 

I'm sure you'll do great Doof with your MS. Had I started from scratch, learning about MS in advance and building mine personally to meet the spec, rather than change one already built AND had the time to do it rather than rush, I suspect my car would be running now.

 

I am not going to spend my R&R on my Pug; I'm going to smother my little boy in love, attention and father hood.

 

However, I fantasize about my Pug sooooo much. I picture blatting in it, with the boy, on my own, with other forum members and it WILL be running very soon. I may well take this opportunity, even some time over R&R when the lad's asleep - as the 205 is in a well lit workshop - to have the GTi6 inlet off and fit the R1 ITBs, install /\ /\ the aforementioned 'proper' ECU and tidy up a few previously rushed elements to make it all better than it would've been.

 

Either way troops, the beast will live, and everyone's support has been and still is greatly appreciated.

Edited August 9, 2008 by DrSarty

[Anthony 1,003]

Might be worth giving Baz on here a shout - he has (or certainly had last time I spoke to him) an ~18 month old Emerald that he was looking to sell, currently loaded with a GTi-6 on throttle bodies map.

 

There's a couple of places that do Megasquirt diagnosis and repairs fairly cheaply if you want to stick by that route, or indeed if someone has a spare Megasquirt Stim board that they're willing to lend/sell me then I'm happy to take a look at the Megasquirt for you and get it fixed for when you return.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks Ant. Great to heare from you again. How's Cyprus (where I was earlier today, transiting through from Muskat towards the UK)? And can you come to the curry on 22nd?

 

Baz. Oh Ba-az. Time we chatted I believe. Still got that ECU?

[Anthony 1,003]

Cyprus was great but sadly I'm back in Blighty now - the unbroken sunshine, 35+ degree temperatures, and beach within walking distance replaced with cold, rain, and a whole bunch of miserable f**kers. Ho hum, but still it was nice while it lasted.

 

Curry on the 22nd sounds good to me - I clearly missed the thread (assuming there was one) while I was away, so I'll go and have a look now

 

I'll point Baz in your direction when I next speak to him if he doesn't spot this thread first.

[Baz 421]

^Smarmy git...^ -and off to the ring in a few days too!! Cruel life for some...

 

Rich, -Ola! Glad you're home & safe my friend! I have just replied to your PM!

[Doof 11]

Have you had a chat with Mad Professor? He supplies MS systems with base maps and all the correct code to run so this eliminates many of the above mentioned problems. The guy really knows his stuff, offers loads of help and does the MS systems at a good price...don't quit MS just yet