[engine_work] Project Sarty

[Alastairh 47]

So whens the lumpy sticks going in?

 

Al

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Bloody hell Al give me a mo. I've only been back a day!

 

February or sooner if I can manage.

[Sandy 191]

Looking nice Rich You need to get some trumpets on there to make it work properly.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Thanks Sandy. As for the trumpets, their being made by Colin (as you probably already know you cheeky monkey) and I'll have them in about 3 weeks.

 

This will mean a change from the Dellorto individual filters to a single piece, flat panel ITG filter or similar mounted to a plate which will screw to the lips of the trumpets. Colin knows how to cross sell very well, but naturally just wants to help produce a great engine.

 

As I don't really know what I'm going to be doing or where I'm going to be this year, workwise - possibly going back to Afghanistan - I'm going to hold off on the cam install and following wise advice as given above, I'm going to book a remap based on the engine as is.

 

I should be able to get this remap done with the trumpets fitted, which will mean the engine is running safe and performing as best it can before the cams go in, when it will get its final map. But I don't envisage the latter happening 'til summer or later. However it will show exactly what performance improvement the cam swap brings.

 

This delay also gives me time to save the cash as the fitting (due to accurate cam timing with dial guages being needed) and the remap is going to see me out of another £500, so I will also take this opportunity to install brand new hydraulic lifters/cam followers to ensure we get the best out of the cams which are both regrinds.

 

So funds for now will go to the remap as is and tweeking to ensure everything's fine, dandy and reliable for the Eurotrip.

 

Where is a good place to get these single piece flat filters BTW? I've seen ones which are perhaps 6-8inches tall, 20inches wide and 4inches deep, either shaped like a humbug sweet or rounded. I hope the explanation is clear and someone can advise me.

 

When I drove it yesterday, it actually felt like the torque had increased, as even in the dry it was trying to wheel spin in 4th out of roundabouts!

 

Thanks for everyone's continued support.

[Mattsav 1]

This is DrS at Magic's house in Brisbane .

 

I'll have to ask Matt Saville at QEP for you my friend.

 

I've been discussing my engine amongst many others with Magic today (and he is certainly a fan of Mi/S16/GTI6 hybrid, larger displacement engines BTW) and he's raised the issue of S16 rods (big ends) matching the journals (without modification) on the 2.1 DT crank. Now I'm pretty convinced Matt didn't have to do any extra work, as I only remember him mentioning some work on the small ends to make them work correctly with the gudgeon pins. As for the new gudgeon pin height, I can only assume QEP did some dry, test assembling and measuring based on the cam I provided to ensure adequate starting valve to piston clearance was achieved.

 

QEP are building/have built a few of these 2.1 - 2.3 hydrid engines now and I'm sure Matt would be quite approachable, providing he got a little business out of it.

 

My pistons are Wiseco by the way, who I've since learnt are made in Asia to keep costs down and profits up I guess, and were I to do this again I think I'd choose Wossner (sp?) as I suspect being made in Germany will be of better overall quality.

 

One of Magic's favourite N/A engines to date has been his 2.1, made with S16 block & head but Mi16 crank to up displacement. With Wossner standard 11:1 pistons, a block deck, head skim and pretty wild cams running 12.4:1 CR, he's had masses of torque from really low down, a smooth idle and 260 BHP from a 7,500 limited engine. He also has 45mm bodies on 8 staged injectors and a Haltech ECU with LS1 coils (like mine) .

 

Let me know if Matt doesn't reply and I'll ask him for you.

 

The pistons we're made to our drawing. The small end is bushed to hold the rod in place (as you can't get a forging with the pin bosses close enough to locate the rod).

 

I'd much rather a Wiseco piston (although not my favorite) to Wossner.

[kyepan 291]

well done rich, remap sounds like the sensible option, bodies look good on their new manifold, fair play for going the home brew route first though.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

well done rich, remap sounds like the sensible option, bodies look good on their new manifold, fair play for going the home brew route first though.

 

Thanks Justin and Matt (prev reply). The homebrew route in hindsight was both brave and wrong at the same time. Having said that, I've learned a lot in doing so as well as probably losing £300 in the process.

 

I've spoken with Dave at Emerald and booked a remap on the 9th Feb (4 days before my 38th birthday - on which I propose a curry meet in Hatfield on Fri 13th (thread to come today)), and he says it'll run fine if I don't thrash it. He also talked me through a few mixture checks which I'll do today as he agrees it probably is still running slightly rich due to the fundamental differences between the previous set-up when he saw it last. This means a weak mixture - which could be an engine's greatest enemy - is perhaps not a real danger.

 

This means I'm not overly worried driving it until the 9th Feb (being a little cautious though), and shows I'm taking people's advice (Maxi & Tom F) in ensuring I don't trash it.

 

I'm hoping that the remap produces more power/torque, but frankly just even more driveability will be fine, as it is my everyday driver and jack of all trades. I also want the comfort of knowing it's hunky for the Eurotrip.

 

With just under a month, Colin should have time to spin up the trumpets which make a big difference I'm advised in air entering the bodies/inlet, and Josh is now helping me source my ITG filter, for which I'll get someone local if necessary to knock up a back plate.

Edited January 16, 2009 by DrSarty

[Matt Holley 11]

I got my ITG filter from melin motorsport, they do all sorts of sizes and they could cut your back plate out aswell if you give them the measurments.

Edited January 16, 2009 by matt holley

[Bonzai 2]

the guy at merlin told me i'd have to do it myself as they dont make one for the Mi manifold (not that sartys would fit anyway im guessing) but they are expensive too. I think proven products wa sthe cheapest i came across but still cost about £100 ish

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Merlin are expensive for anything really although a nice bunch of blokes!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I think I'll do some measuring once the trumpets are on, source the foam filter and make the backing plate myself. I have to keep some element of DIY in there and I think I'll go back to JP Exhausts/Engineering in Macclesfield and get them to profile it and press out the holes for me.

[Bonzai 2]

making the holes is the easy bit, from what the type i have seen they have a couple cutouts formed into the edges which act as the capture for the dzus fastners and they would be the most difficult bit to manufacture.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Can you blag me some BA Dzus fasteners from work please Ben, say 4off?

[Matt Holley 11]

the guy at merlin told me i'd have to do it myself as they dont make one for the Mi manifold (not that sartys would fit anyway im guessing) but they are expensive too. I think proven products wa sthe cheapest i came across but still cost about £100 ish

 

Thinking about it you are right, they ordered my back plate in already cut

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Small update:

 

As you know I'm prep'ing for the Emerald remap on 9th Feb. That should perhaps free up some more power from the engine and also free me up for some foot-mashed-into-carpet action, to see what she can do.

 

Went on a jolly yesterday over to Heywood near Bury, and met JimiSTDT and Arahan, who came with me for a blat and liked it. James and Jimi are both very nice people BTW.

 

Then went on a rather elongated trip to Skipton (N Yorks) and met PugTorque, which was nice. Here's the view outside his front door showing the local riff-raff eyeing up my wheels:

 

 

My speedo, despite having a new (pattern) drive cable a month ago started flicking a bit recently and then gave up the ghost on Jimi's exciting, but not exactly direct route . So it's not all roses and foot massages with my car; still a typical Peugeot 205 with that will it/won't it break/start etc aura about it. Kind of gives motoring an edge really.

 

Graham and I attempted to fix it - put the drive cable back on - but it carried on clicking and reading nothing so I just turned the music up.

 

This gave me an opportunity to meet SorrentoPete this morning to try another instrument binnacle. Then the whole day got exciting.

 

Sandy/Colin's ITB Trumpets Turned Up

 

 

Some real quality work, as you'd expect. I'm now just locating the best deal for an ITG JC50 filter and backplate.

 

My GTI6 injectors came back cleaned, certificated, now fitted and ready to go. Idle has smoothed a bit, which is nice.

 

During the day, between the two instrument binnacles I got the speedo working again, put some sound insulation material (Dynamat) behind the instrument cluster, and got rid of all the dead binnacle bulbs and now have, for the first time, all lights working. For example I've NEVER had the side and headlight green lights, so it's all a new, shiny experience. Love it.

 

I also went to Peugeot and ordered new rear suspension bump stops (which now come complete with cups) for SorrentoPete and I, and also ordered a new XU10J4 ECU temp sensor to ensure as much as possible is tickety-boo for the re-map.

 

I've been assured the trumpets will have a positive effect on the performance of the throttle bodies by Sandy, and feel confident they will.

 

I also fitted Miles' uprated and very high quality gear linkages. They made an immediate 'sure change' difference, particularly when I noticed the heat from the exhaust had practically destroyed the plastic collar inside the very old OE items.

 

Finally I fitted a waterproof 3 pin connector for the throttle postition sensor on the bodies rather than rely on the push fit spade connectors, which were vertical so could've fallen off at any time. This also means the bodies are easily unpluggable for maintenance.

 

As Ice Cube once 'sang', it was a good day.

Edited January 28, 2009 by DrSarty

[Arahan 4]

I love your subtlety, James "liked" it! Bloody loved it more like! Awesome car!

 

Good call on the bumpstops too, after melting abit of rear rubber around ashworth valley!

 

Just gutted i had to go to work!

 

Trumpets look fantastic BTW!

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Looking good, I guess if this is your only vehicle you have no choice but to use it, but please get an air filter on it ASAP- after the time and money you have poured into the engine a decent air filter is a MUST, and please, ASAP!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Looking good, I guess if this is your only vehicle you have no choice but to use it, but please get an air filter on it ASAP- after the time and money you have poured into the engine a decent air filter is a MUST, and please, ASAP!

 

Yes Tom. (Your heatshield looks better BTW.....but why did you get blue hosing when the engine's red )

 

Just a demo pic with the trumpets. ITG filter & backplate should be bought tomorrow.

[pip470 61]

The stats on this engine are impressive, the acceleration of this engine, awesome, the anticipation of the remap, unbearable, the end result is going to be like unleashing hell.

 

Uber impressed mate.

Well done.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Placed my order with Europaspares today for the ITG JC50/25 filter and un-holed 17JC50 base-plate.

 

That's another £100....poooffff .

 

These guys were Josh's recommendation, and I have to say after speaking to Merlin - whose web-site is much better and clearer - I didn't like Merlin one bit.

 

Maybe it's just me (it often is), but I'm quite pleasant and business-like when I speak to people, and the boss of Merlin I was speaking to simply said he didn't want my order. What a bizarre business practice.

 

I'll be speaking to Wayne of Europa on Monday to hopefully get some involvement from them on EuroTrip. I might even be able to wangle us a forum discount.

 

Nearly ready for Emerald. Will go early to let the car get cold again so that Dave's mapping helps future cold starting, and wang in some brand new BCP7ET plugs when I get there too to compliment the new injectors, bodies, trumpets and ECU temp sender.

Edited January 29, 2009 by DrSarty

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Suprised to hear your story from Merlin, I've used them lots and they have gone out of the way to help on a couple of occasions.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Rich, I have been searching and searching and I just cant find a BHP figure!?!?!!? What power did it make?

 

Maxi

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

First map, on the homemade manifold (which leaked I reckon where the bodies joined the silicons), had the '6 injectors km's away from the head in the 40mm bodies, lazy stage I cam shaft and was being 'choked' due to a combination of all the above made 196BHP peak.

 

With the much better manifold and larger 46mm bodies Adam, we should expect over 200BHP.

 

However if I had any goal with this engine - and I may have to wait until the stage II cam is on the inlet and the stage I on the exhaust, together with the staged injectors - is to make a fat, sweet torque curve with 200lb/ft torquey worquies.

 

And P.S. What's all this new signature & 'temper' stuff? I don't think that really fits in with this forum my knowledgable friend.

Edited February 2, 2009 by DrSarty

[Dan Ingram 1]

Mega impressed with this. I had a quick passenger ride in it the other day. I'm amazed how civilised it is just plodding about, plenty of poke as well considering it was on half throttle with a 4k rev limit. Good work

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

First map, on the homemade manifold (which leaked I reckon where the bodies joined the silicons), had the '6 injectors km's away from the head in the 40mm bodies, lazy stage I cam shaft and was being 'choked' due to a combination of all the above made 196BHP peak.

 

With the much better manifold and larger 46mm bodies Adam, we should expect over 200BHP.

 

However if I had any goal with this engine - and I may have to wait until the stage II cam is on the inlet and the stage I on the exhaust, together with the staged injectors - is to make a fat, sweet torque curve with 200lb/ft torquey worquies.

 

And P.S. What's all this new signature & 'temper' stuff? I don't think that really fits in with this forum my knowledgable friend.

 

 

One of the dickhead members on here got me fuming this morning. Direct personal attack on me which I didnt appreciate, especially as it was well below the belt and the subject he hit me on actually brought a tear to my eye. Mods took care of it but I SHALL be having words if I ever get to meet the jonah in person. There are some place you dont go, unless you are a keyboard warrior.

 

 

Back on subject: This engine will piss 200BHP. If there is one thing I have learnt to make an XU 16v shunt you need two elements, Compression and Wild cams. My last 2.1 Mi16 made 216BHP and 174Ibft of torque and im pretty sure it was a lesser spec than yours.......

 

The only question I would ask is, why do you want so much torque in such a light car? Im sure your answer will be purely driveability but thought id ask the question anyway (no hidden agenda, I am genuinely interested )

 

Maxi