[engine_work] Project Sarty

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

OK, I need to do a bit of back reading through the thread as I can't suss out the alternator mounting at the mo. And I'm also missing the top part of the engine mount.

 

Basically I'm test fitting everything back to the outside of the engine (less the 2 manifolds) so I know I have everything. All the parts are being cleaned - the dishwasher is running as we speak - and the then clean thermostat housing will have two outlets sealed up and new sensor/senders screwed in for coolant temp x 2 (ECU & gauge) and coolant temp high warning switch.

 

ENGINE TAKING SHAPE

 

CONFUSION WITH ALTERNATOR/ENGINE MOUNT BRACKETS

Is this right??

The part I now hate

 

NEED THIS BIT (I think) - Mounting Bracket Right 1839 28 - Anyone got one or an alternative please?

 

AND WHY THE CAM COVER NEEDS MANIPULATION TO MAKE THE DW8 ADJUSTABLE INLET PULLEY FIT (Just the bolts foul)

[Anthony 1,003]

NEED THIS BIT (I think) - Mounting Bracket Right 1839 28 - Anyone got one or an alternative please?

Yeah, I've got one - remind me and I'll bring it to the curry night for you

[tom_m 0]

Anyone got one or an alternative please?

 

i've got a spare alloy xu10 mount, but you'd need to source an mi top arm and an alternator mount for it (i had one of those too but just sent it to miles).

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Erm, oh God panic attack! Too many options. Thanks Tom M & Anthony.

 

First off, it seems these two choices of mount (what I have now) and what Tom M has proposed attach the alternator opposite ways up. Correct?

 

I found this diagram and now gather the horrible part I have (in blue) mounts as shown in the diagram but will need some angle grinding to remove the portion for the PAS tensioner which I don't need. I have the other blue bracket too, but I see that isn't for tensioning the belt, which Sandy mentioned to me can/should be swapped for a slotted bracket to give you (in the absence of a tensioning pulley) the ability to tighten/loosen the alternator belt. Clever stuff this.

 

 

That's one way, OR I could swap for Tom M's alloy mount which {A} will be lighter and {B} will mount the alternator other way up, with the alternator tensioner underneath. In that event an alternator tensioning bracket is still required.

 

Anthony - will that item you have mount to Tom M's part? Or could/should I get the matching alloy one of those too?

Edited February 13, 2008 by DrSarty

[Anthony 1,003]

The "bridge" section of the top mount I have is for the S16/GTi-6 iron mount that you currently have - the alloy one that Tom has needs the earlier 1.9 Mi style "bridge" section.

 

Both will require some minor modification of parts to allow you to run just an alternator, as both are designed with PAS (and sometimes aircon) in mind. Not hard to do though - just do a search and see how people have installed S16 and GTi-6 engines into 205's, as most of them have been done without PAS.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

The "bridge" section of the top mount I have is for the S16/GTi-6 iron mount that you currently have - the alloy one that Tom has needs the earlier 1.9 Mi style "bridge" section.

 

Both will require some minor modification of parts to allow you to run just an alternator, as both are designed with PAS (and sometimes aircon) in mind. Not hard to do though - just do a search and see how people have installed S16 and GTi-6 engines into 205's, as most of them have been done without PAS.

 

Thanks Anthony. I also just found this from James R earlier:

 

The iron s16 mount fits, but a lighter alternative is the mount from the 2L XM or 605 engine's coupled to a Mi "elbow" this fits the s16 with a small modification and then hack/cut/grind off the extra brackets on it. We tested this on Anthony's hybrid engine, also allows the engine to be moved up or down a little.

 

I'm tempted with the weight saving route and going alloy, but as I have two weeks before curry night and could just have your iron top 'bridge' mount - WHICH I'M GUESSING FITS STRAIGHT ON? - then I can bell you nearer the time to ask you to bring it. Thanks again peeps.

[Anthony 1,003]

I'm tempted with the weight saving route and going alloy, but as I have two weeks before curry night and could just have your iron top 'bridge' mount - WHICH I'M GUESSING FITS STRAIGHT ON? - then I can bell you nearer the time to ask you to bring it. Thanks again peeps.

Yup, it bolts straight on and is the bit that you're missing for your existing mount to actually put the engine in.

[tom_m 0]

Both will require some minor modification of parts to allow you to run just an alternator, as both are designed with PAS (and sometimes aircon) in mind. Not hard to do though - just do a search and see how people have installed S16 and GTi-6 engines into 205's, as most of them have been done without PAS.

 

if you can source the mi 'bridge' section i'm pretty sure I can also get you the alternator tensioner you'd need to use with the alloy mount. both of which i can bring to the curry also. in addition to this i'm pretty sure batfink has the alternator mount that goes with my mount.

 

THIS is a side view of the alloy set-up being used sans PAS

 

as you can see from the earlier pic my mount is lacking a couple of studs and one of the ones that is there is slightly bent (but took an mi 'bridge' regardless)

 

the choice, as they say sir, is yours

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

if you can source the mi 'bridge' section i'm pretty sure I can also get you the alternator tensioner you'd need to use with the alloy mount. both of which i can bring to the curry also. in addition to this i'm pretty sure batfink has the alternator mount that goes with my mount.

 

Well now. As all 3 of you are coming to the curry, I shall remind you all before to bring these bits. You are all being extremely kind and helpful.

 

If I solve the issue before then I will of course also let you know.

 

Cheers again Tom.

[Super Josh 4]

oooh, can I jump in here? I *May* be on the scrounge for an XU10 alternator tensioner arm bit as I'm trying to fit an XU10 Alternator to my Mi at the moment and don't have the arm bit. I'll have to go and have a play with the bits that I have

 

 

 

Josh

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

oooh, can I jump in here? I *May* be on the scrounge for an XU10 alternator tensioner arm bit as I'm trying to fit an XU10 Alternator to my Mi at the moment and don't have the arm bit. I'll have to go and have a play with the bits that I have

Josh

 

Jump away Josh.

 

I have two at the moment that I haven't been able to test fit until (tonight hopefully when) I attack the lower bracket with an angle grinder or light sabre; whichever comes to hand first.

 

I'm driving to a farm tonight to see a bloke who's going to Tig weld up the redundant outlets on my alloy (Mi16) thermostat housing.

 

Of the two alternator arms I have at the mo, only one is adjustable (with a slot), whereas the other is just a bar with fixed holes at either end, as the PAS pulley does the tensioning, and PAS I believe you have.

 

So when I have the one from Kev and get mine set-up, whatever I have left is all your chief.

[Anthony 1,003]

oooh, can I jump in here? I *May* be on the scrounge for an XU10 alternator tensioner arm bit as I'm trying to fit an XU10 Alternator to my Mi at the moment and don't have the arm bit. I'll have to go and have a play with the bits that I have

An XU10 8v/diesel alternator should be a direct swap for an Mi one - it's just the wiring connectors that need changing.

 

Certainly I'm running an XU10 alternator on one of my 205 8v's without a problem - just bolted up in place of the old XU9 one

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'll post some pics of the Tig'd up thermo housing later, and potentially the lower S16 alternator bracket having surgery, well amputation really.

 

Meanwhilst: several conversations with James R, Miles and P_205GTi later, I am potentially now an owner of a pre-built MS2V3 ECU converted to run off the 60-2 Mi flywheel with the original Bosch trigger, and a hybrid BE3 gearbox, which should be lovingly built/refurbed and fitted with either a plate diff or (and less likely now) a Quaife ATB.

 

Keeping the cost down but the practicality up is mega difficult, but kinda challenging and fun too.

 

If I don't plump for the 1.6 BE3 (that'll be frantic) with the ATB, then the hybrid box is shaping up to be an Mi final drive and 5th (to give a motorway, relaxed overdrive) coupled to a 1.9 first gear and then maybe 1.6 2-4 to give super rapid - but wheel spin avoiding - 0-100mph capability.

 

James R is gonna chat to Miles about this idea, as I've promised Miles some business for a long time. And in return for James' efforts I'm taxiing loads of his bits down to Miles for him in the back of my spacious, but crap Volvo.

[Anthony 1,003]

If I don't plump for the 1.6 BE3 (that'll be frantic) with the ATB, then the hybrid box is shaping up to be an Mi final drive and 5th (to give a motorway, relaxed overdrive) coupled to a 1.9 first gear and then maybe 1.6 2-4 to give super rapid - but wheel spin avoiding - 0-100mph capability.

You know that 1st will be similar, and 2nd to 4th is going to be even shorter than a 1.6 box on that combination, don't you, with a fairly sizeable jump to 5th? In other words - it'll be even more frantic and difficult to put the power down, and whilst the gap to 5th won't be an issue on the motorway, it will probably annoy you on faster tracks (Combe and Donington you'll need 5th) and the 'Ring

 

1.6 box mph/1000rpm:

 

1st = 5.0

2nd = 8.8

3rd = 12.2

4th = 15.5

5th = 19.1

 

1.9 box with Mi FD and 5th:

 

1st = 5.2

2nd = 8.2

3rd = 11.2

4th = 14.2

5th = 20.0

 

If you want a custom box to match the engine and projected usage, I'd say 1.9 ratios all round with either a 1.6 (4.06) or 1.9 CTi (3.93) FD.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

You know that 1st will be similar, and 2nd to 4th is going to be even shorter than a 1.6 box on that combination, don't you, with a fairly sizeable jump to 5th?

 

I probably misquoted James, but the jump to 5th is fine as it's supposed to me an overdrive.

 

In fact James could've said a combo of Mi & 1.9 5th and FD or indeed both from a 1.9.

 

I suppose the goal is 1st to 4th, well spaced enough to avoid spinning in 1st and take it nicely, with acceptable rev drop to 100. James is going to do some number crunchin' and chat with Miles and perhaps you too about this, as I find gearboxes scary...just like the underside of large ships and their propellors!

 

Your advice Ant as ever is priceless and those details you've just added ^^ after I typed this is great stuff. Like the suggestion too.

Edited February 14, 2008 by DrSarty

[Anthony 1,003]

I added to the above post with more detail

[welshpug 1,657]

Surely with this much anticipated power, and more importantly torque a longer gearbox would be better?

 

Maybe even a std Mi16 box?

 

 

here you go, have a play http://www.track-monkey.co.uk/downloads/techgear.xls

Edited February 14, 2008 by welshpug

[tom_m 0]

I probably misquoted James, but the jump to 5th is fine as it's supposed to me an overdrive.

 

trust me its a very big jump!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

trust me its a very big jump!

 

I appreciate everyone's concerns and advice here; and all will be considered. I'll see what happens when Anthony, James & Miles chew on this. It may well end up being just a refurbed Mi box with a plate diff. We shall see.

 

As for tonight:

 

I made a call to my welder today, but he couldn't Tig weld, so he gave me two numbers. The first guy wasn't too enthusiastic, but the 2nd couldn't be helpful enough.....although he couldn't Tig either. BUT, he did know a bloke called Stu.

 

Well I chatted to Stu and he said come over............. ........

 

 

Only went and landed on a gold mine!

 

This guy Stu must have been late 50's or more, had a glass fibre lay up room, 3 axis milling machine, engine dyno etc etc and a nice toasty furnace in a huge workshops at the bottom of his garden in an obscure little village. He used to race motorbikes but broke his back, and had gone into special effects for movies after selling his engineering business and tinkering with Kawasaki and BSA bike engines.

 

He's worked on Flight 93, Saving Private Ryan, several Mission Impossibles, Bourne Ultimatum, Event Horizon and on and on. His worshop is really a glorified hobby, but he makes cylinder heads, cranks and custom oil pumps and sump systems. He's Tig'ing up my stat housing and trimming down my alternator bracket over the weekend for the cost of a few beers. What a geyser!

Edited February 14, 2008 by DrSarty

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

wow... very nice "formula" thing too!

[kyepan 291]

wow... very nice "formula" thing too!

formula jedi?

[Super Josh 4]

Jump away Josh.

 

Cheers Rich, let me know what you have left

On the 'Box front I think that the 'jump to fifth' (Sounds like a film title ) will become a complete PITA after a while. I know that you say it will be an overdrive (wow, it's like going back to the old Triumphs with the switch on top of the gear knob ) but with all that torque and when you are cruizin' to track days etc. I think that you will use it more than you think.

 

 

 

Josh

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Totally agreed Josh. The James/Ant conflab happened, and I've gone 1.9CTi (BE3) box complete. Failing that 1.9 with 1.6FD. Nuff said.

 

Miles will be getting the box fairly soon to check its internals and possibly fit the plate diff too. Once she's fit for service, onto the engine and 2.2Mi drops into 205.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Well Kyepan was right - Formula Jedi is my local Tig welder's passion.

 

After his work:

 

BEFORE

 

NOW HACKED

 

AND Mi16 THERMOSTAT HOUSING TiG'd UP

 

Done some extra work for extra money this weekend, so not much progress other than prep work. But I'll have no choice to bolt it together soon as there'll be nothing left to prep.

[petert 586]

Did you TIG up the distribution block as well?