V6 Into A 306

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Mine is about the same:

 

 

I am 100% sure Hilgie can answer all the questions better than i can, however for the time being:

1) The latter (210bhp ) is called XFX/es9j4s and the earlier (190bhp ) is called XFZ/es9j4. The ES9J4S is found in the latter 406 Coupe's and some 406 estates. The problem with the more powerful engine is that the wiring is far more complicated, fly-by-wire throttle etc, so a fairly decent aftermarket ecu will have to be used. Adding a lot of cost for the extra 10-15 bhp.

2) The V6 engine's both mount to a ML5 gearbox, and can only mount to this gearbox! This gearbox uses an hydraulic clutch unless someone has designed a cable clutch conversion, Hilgie?

3) It is heavier by around 50kg's, I think!

 

1) Correct! Although Graeme and I both use the earlier engine.

2) Only the ML5T box the engine comes with. BE boxes are out of the question. The later V6s found in the 406 Coupe have an ML6C gearbox though (6 spd) so you might want to find one of those, but in my opinoin it's not needed at all.

3) The engine weighs about the same as a 2.0T engine. It's all aluminum and quite light.

[boombang 2]

BE boxes are out of the question.

Is there a specific reason why you say that?

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

3 Cats must be on the later car's, Mine's only got 1

 

Using a BE box would be possible but how long it would last is anyones guess, even the XU10J2TE engine uses the ML box so testing by pug must have shown up some weakness, I know the BE boxes do stand allot of stick but I know that 250 is about it then they start to break often

 

With the clutch could you use say a 206 clutch pedal and M/S? never really looked at this so a long stab in the dark

Edited April 19, 2007 by Miles

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Thanks again for all the input, the hydraulic clutch things seems a bit of a palaver, I thought I'd seen the last of those when I stopped mucking around with Mini's, I'd like to think it could be modded to run with just the cable set up or even a weld a new flange on the Gti6 box to mate to the V6. I here what Miles is saying about the Six box being weak but they are plentiful and my LSD will go straight in.

I may be picking up a 196bhp V6 engine and box this weekend that will give me something to work with but I do want to use the late engine with the variable valve timing.

I was talking to the place that built the twin V6 engine 306 today and he reckons it easy to get the VVT working with after market management.

Hilgie have you corner weighed you car or had it on any sort of a weigh bridge?

[Kev-G 1]

 

This French V6 205 has the later engine, and I would say it's running std. management - Have a look @ the dash shots....406 clocks + top half sitting over a 205 dash....

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I wonder what's in the other 205 he races? as it doesn't look much quicker than it!

[24seven 104]

IIRC it's a turbo 8valve. I think I read that off here a while ago.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

yes...the other car is a 2.0T on 1 bar....

 

Miles have you tried fitting a BE box on? Because it just doesn't fit. The bellhousing doesn't even fit over the V6s flywheel...also the bolt pattern is different....very different.

 

The bellhousing of a ML5T box on a V6 is completely different than that of ML5T on a 2.0T. The 2.0HDi also runs an ML5T, which again has a different bellhousing.

So yes, the box is the same, but they use different bellhousings for each engine type (ES, XU, DW)

[Kev-G 1]

Miles have you tried fitting a BE box on? Because it just doesn't fit. The bellhousing doesn't even fit over the V6s flywheel...also the bolt pattern is different....very different.

 

The bellhousing of a ML5T box on a V6 is completely different than that of ML5T on a 2.0T. The 2.0HDi also runs an ML5T, which again has a different bellhousing.

So yes, the box is the same, but they use different bellhousings for each engine type (ES, XU, DW)

 

Not disputing this, but there was a post a few weeks ago about (IIRC) DES Developments putting a V6 into a basic 205 and using a BE 'box

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

well they might have used an XU flywheel, XU clutch and a modified bellhousing, but I'd say that using the ML5T and shortening the driveshafts is easier and can handle the power for sure....whereas the BE certainly cannot.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'd stick with the ML box too, Just saying nothing's impossible but I know mine has stood up well

[James504 12]

280bhp might be a stretch considering Tom Walkinshaw Racing got only 280 out of a Clio v6.

Edited April 24, 2007 by James504

[Batfink 201]

280bhp might be a stretch considering Tom Walkinshaw Racing got only 280 out of a Clio v6.

all road cars are built on a compromise with emissions etc in mind so in a way its not relevant