V6 Into A 306

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

After going to the ring and keeping with most things on the bends and seeing them disappear on the straights I'm looking for the cheapest way to get a lot more power with standard engine reliability.

I reckon the most obvious way to achieve what I want seems to be to fit the V6 engine perhaps with TB's, a bit of head work, a regrind on the cams and a bespoke exhaust. I know this conversions been done plenty of times before so I wondered if anyone could help me with the following questions

1,I've heard the most powerful engine in standard form is a 215bhp 3ltr, what car was this engine fitted in?

2, Will the engine mate to my original six speed box ok and sit at the correct angle and clear the servo and everything else?

3, How heavy is the engine compared to the six engine?

thanks Martin.

[Powers 13]

I am 100% sure Hilgie can answer all the questions better than i can, however for the time being:

1) The latter (210bhp ) is called XFX/es9j4s and the earlier (190bhp ) is called XFZ/es9j4. The ES9J4S is found in the latter 406 Coupe's and some 406 estates. The problem with the more powerful engine is that the wiring is far more complicated, fly-by-wire throttle etc, so a fairly decent aftermarket ecu will have to be used. Adding a lot of cost for the extra 10-15 bhp.

2) The V6 engine's both mount to a ML5 gearbox, and can only mount to this gearbox! This gearbox uses an hydraulic clutch unless someone has designed a cable clutch conversion, Hilgie?

3) It is heavier by around 50kg's, I think!

 

I hope that is of some use before the oracle replies!

[VisaGTi16v 1]

There is a ZX video on you tube with a V6 in it, shows it going over 150mph so its possible to fit them in

[number2301 1 1 Cars]

Could the dp enginering turbo kit on an XU10 not produce similar power to the v6?

 

http://www.dp-engineering.nl/EN/products/t...u_16v_compo.php

[welshpug 1,657]

for over 2k yes!

 

when you think you can source complete front ends of 406's for less than a grand I think V6 would be the way to go.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

The engine is quite a bit heavier than the 4 cylinders though

[tom_m 0]

The engine is quite a bit heavier than the 4 cylinders though

 

not according to some

[number2301 1 1 Cars]

for over 2k yes!

 

when you think you can source complete front ends of 406's for less than a grand I think V6 would be the way to go.

 

Does the v6 fit the 306 better than the 205 then? Cause the last 205 v6 I saw ended up as a cube after ruining the handling with the big block!

[Batfink 201]

its not the weight as such but where it sits

[VisaGTi16v 1]

I thought it was nearly 190kg's dry with no box compared to 135 ish for an ally Mi16. Granted sorting the suspension will counter it a bit but its still heavier. Then again, it would sound far better heh! (unless your 4 pot was on carbs/tb's!)

[welshpug 1,657]

Does the v6 fit the 306 better than the 205 then? Cause the last 205 v6 I saw ended up as a cube after ruining the handling with the big block!

 

yep, though that particular car was reputedly a bodge all over, Hilgert's one has been a success www.205V6.com

 

found a few more details on that ZX V6,

 

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2145420

 

http://www.autotuneanddesign.co.uk/gpage2.html1.html

 

and another short autobahn vid http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_244042_...sus_audi_tt.htm

 

have you read up on Jeram's goodwood? theres a lot of info around that'll help you in your quest.

[JERAM 0]

the engine itself is not that much heavier than a 2.0 steel block, the box is a big lump though. so yes it's about 50kg heavier.

 

in a 309 it handles VERRY well, so a 306 should be good.

 

in the wet it's useless, wheelspin's if you look at the throttle

 

in the dry pulls you to 150mph in no time, supercar quick

 

i have a evo as a company car, 320bhp etc,etc, and all the jap electronics pish my 309 would wipe the floor with it in the dry. no ifs or buts, absolutly destroy it

 

throw one in, you'll not regret it, wiring etc is not that hard and the sound

[Powers 13]

Sorry Jeram if this has been asked 1,000 times before but what did you do about the hydraullic clutch as from you pics i can only see the one mc?

Cheers.

[s16 Peggy 0]

I too will be very interested in this asI have been thinking for a while that the V6 in my S16 would be a good choice I had a 406 V6 about a year ago and it was a proper sleeper, so that engine combined with my stripped 306 would be an intereting mix....

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Martin, Give me a call tomorrow as I have another idea

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Thanks for all the input, as I've said my main objective is a lot more power with standard engine reliability,I reckon the V6 with a few simple mods will be good for 280bhp which is what I'm looking for.

The weight issue isn't a massive concern as I reckon a lot of the talk about too much weight in the front interfering with the handling is crap anyway, after all the Carrado VR6 is reckoned to be one of the best handling front wheel drive cars ever made and that engine weighs a ton. The fact that my battery is all ready in the boot and all my air con stuff has gone is gonna help matters, if I was that bothered I could always mount the rad where the spare wheel should be.

If I go ahead with the conversion I'll get my car weighed on each corner so I can see exactly what effect the V6 has had weight wise.

Thanks again Martin.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Its not crap if you want to use it for competition as every kg matters. If its a general use road car then its not that relevant as long as you get suitable springs etc. Radiator in the back will have no air flow unless you make some massive entry holes in front of the rear wheels or something and it still wouldnt be as good as in the front of the car plus you would need to run longer coolant pipes etc.

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Its not crap if you want to use it for competition as every kg matters. If its a general use road car then its not that relevant as long as you get suitable springs etc. Radiator in the back will have no air flow unless you make some massive entry holes in front of the rear wheels or something and it still wouldnt be as good as in the front of the car plus you would need to run longer coolant pipes etc.

Obviously I wouldn't just mount the rad I the back without making some provision to get enough airflow through it and I understand the plumbing involved.

As for the weight issue I get bored of hearing the same old arguments about engine weights and the lengths that some will go to reduce weight on what are just track day cars as mine is, people tend to be blinkered as to where the easiest ways to reduce there lap times are. Yes when you're racing at nation level with a big budget you have to makes improvements in every area but most of us are on here that do track days are looking to for good value when we spend our money. In the real world a few KG's extra in the front of our cars wont be noticeable

[willxs 0]

i hear using the cams from a clio V6 is an easy way to unleash quite abit of power.

 

thats what a friend of mine is planning anyway.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

Yes I said competition, not track days. Sprints and races can be decided by hundreths of a second so weight does matter. For a trackday however a V6 would be great fun, blinking quick and attract a lot of attention due to its rarity.

 

I think the block is the same amongst psa, renault, volvo and alpine (going back a bit) but they all used their own heads? Perhaps they are similar as well though

[welshpug 1,657]

depends which gen V6 yea mean, there are 3!!

 

most recent one is very similar to the Renault and Nissan lumps....

[Ahl 4]

Jerams V6 is good for almost 240hp and 240lbft with the 3 catalytic converters removed!

 

I believe thats running on standard management too, and it wasn't the more powerful model to begin with.

[VisaGTi16v 1]

3 cats! single rear box is the only decent set up!

[JERAM 0]

Sorry Jeram if this has been asked 1,000 times before but what did you do about the hydraullic clutch as from you pics i can only see the one mc?

Cheers.

 

this

 

 

 

 

works fine

[welshpug 1,657]

very neat that, even adjustable for travel I guess?

Edited April 19, 2007 by welshpug