Help.. Car Won't Start

[reg 0]

I brought a lovely little cherry red 1.9 a few weeks. I got it cheap because it needed a few things doing to it before it could be back on the road. I managed to do all the necessary stuff and had been driving it around with a big smile on my face all Easter weekend.

 

But I smile no more.

 

As things where working out great I decided to start on the little things that needed fixing but were not important. For instance I took out the broken Clifford alarm light and replaced the bottom part of the dashboard just under the steering column. With that all done I went to start the car for another quick spin but nothing happened.

 

The lights all work, I can hear the fuel pumping but thats it. Maybe it could be the battery I thought, but a quick jump start later and no change.

 

I did a search on the forum and I saw that I could have dislodged the relay by the ecu, or disconnected the barrel wires. But there are all intact and all fuses are fine.

 

I don't know what else it could be. My only thought now is that some how when I cut out the broken Clifford light that it might have set off the immobilizer. I guess its worth mentioning here that the Clifford alarm is disconnected and I never had to do anything with it to start the car before.

 

I don't know what else to try, any ideas?

[Pug_101 0]

I brought a lovely little cherry red 1.9 a few weeks. I got it cheap because it needed a few things doing to it before it could be back on the road. I managed to do all the necessary stuff and had been driving it around with a big smile on my face all Easter weekend.

 

But I smile no more.

 

As things where working out great I decided to start on the little things that needed fixing but were not important. For instance I took out the broken Clifford alarm light and replaced the bottom part of the dashboard just under the steering column. With that all done I went to start the car for another quick spin but nothing happened.

 

The lights all work, I can hear the fuel pumping but thats it. Maybe it could be the battery I thought, but a quick jump start later and no change.

 

I did a search on the forum and I saw that I could have dislodged the relay by the ecu, or disconnected the barrel wires. But there are all intact and all fuses are fine.

 

I don't know what else it could be. My only thought now is that some how when I cut out the broken Clifford light that it might have set off the immobilizer. I guess its worth mentioning here that the Clifford alarm is disconnected and I never had to do anything with it to start the car before.

 

I don't know what else to try, any ideas?

 

Stick the light back on and see what happens?

What about other details, does the starter work, have you got spark/fuel etc.

Cheers

[inferno 1]

the clifford may be unarmed, but disconnecting the light might of armed it, does it still have power to the immobiliser box?

 

my 309 has one of these clifford imobilisers, they look a bit cowboy tbh.

 

just noticed your not too far away, if u get stuck i could pop over and help you out later in the week? ive disconnected most of the alarms and immobiliser from my own cars when they play up, and wired several up too.

[frodo_monkey 0]

Bad earth? I had the same problem with the starter not even turning and it turned out I had a crap earth. Huge resistance between engine and shell on the multimeter is the way to check, easily fixed by either tidying up the earth on top of the gearbox or (as I did) putting a big f*ck-off earth between the top engine mount and shell

[reg 0]

I tried connecting the light back, but it didn't help. There are no sparks or anything else apart from the fule pumbing.

 

The main box with with the siren is not conected to the battery anymore, but there is so much extra wiring witht he alarm i don't know whats the alarm and what isn't, there are a few wires disconected on the relays that are on the top right of the engine bay near the alarm box. Don't know if the siren box is the imobilizer box you mentioned inferno.

 

If i get time after work tonight i'm going to try and test the stater motor; but not sure where it is on this engine. I'm sure it can't be to hard to find. Is it easy to get to? Could well be a bad earth Mr frodo_monkey.

Edited April 11, 2007 by reg

[TEKNOPUG 3]

There will be two wires from the Clifford that splice into the fuel cables (from tachy relay under the dash) and three that go into the ignition wiring from the barrel. One of these will be power for the immobiliser the other two will be to cut the ignition. There should also be one big earth lead. You may have some other for central locking/windows etc. If you chase the big group of wires from under the dash, from the ignition barrel (will probably be wrapped in tape) you should find a thick red, yellow and a couple of white wires (they will all be quite thick). Somewhere the Clifford will be spliced into this to control the engine ignition. Identify which ones belong to the Clifford (should be obvious)and remove. Repair/reconnect the existing wires. Do the same for the fuel pump wires (there may not be any on yours if your fuel pump is priming). Do the same with any other wires from the immobiliser and then throw it in the bin. Car should be back to OE and will start. Make sure that the battery is disconnected whilst you do this. Essentially, just chase all the wires from the immobiliser and reconnect the original ones. It should be fairly obvious when you remove all the trim and electrical tape out of the way.

[reg 0]

Thanks for the info TEKNOPUG. There was a wire going from the barrel wires into the engine bay but it's no longer connected on both ends. The fuel pump doesnt seem to have any wires that aren't the original wires connected to it.

 

I haven't looked at the starter motor yet, i'm going to test it over the weekend. Big thanks to inferno for your offer to come round, but i don't think its a problem with the disconnected alarm. Besides its never giving me problems before. I'll give you a shout if i really need to.

 

There is to much rewiring in the fuse box to warrant removing it totally, i'l probably make things worse. It seems all the wires that are to do with the alarm have been disconnected in the engine bay ( i hope there to do with the alarm anyway, i'll have to chase them to their source to be sure). Better that i test the starter motor first i think. Still can't find it though?? probably have to remove something first to see it, i'll have to pinch my mates Haynes over the weekend. Or just randomly start taking the engine apart

 

thanks for all your help

[kate205gti 4]

im in hatfield tomorrow with anthony and pie - can have a look if ur still stuck!

 

is it trying to start at all or just a click/nothing?

 

if theres nothing at all then my guess is electrics - pull the spade connector off the starter motor and put a bit of wire on there, touch the other end to the posiive battery terminal - does the car then turn over?

 

if no then sound like dodgy starter, very common and easy to swap if a bit of a pain to get to under the manifold (get carbs/tbs instead )

 

if yes then it sounds like wiring to the starter - check the gearbox earth, clean all these connections thoroughly, if thats all ok then sounds like dodgy immobiliser wiring

 

the starter motor is under the inlet manifold at the front of the engine, if ur double-jointed with foot long fingers u can touch it and if u have a torch and stick ur eye between the gaps in the manifold u can see it

 

if it is duff do a search on changing it coz its been posted loads of times

 

heres mine but urs will be covered by the inlet manifold wrapping over the top:

 

 

the pink is the spade connector - or it could have just fallen off which has happened to me before!

[reg 0]

Thats a great help, thankyou. Thank you for your offer to look at it kate205gti. I might have a go tonight, but depends what time i get back from work. If not i'll fix it (hopefully) tomorrow. It is just clicking, maybe its simply a loose wire or a bad earth. Shame its a pain to get to, good excuse to get throttle bodies, they do look very nice

[reg 0]

Someone mentioned it might be the infamous brown multi-plug. Does anyone know if it can be fixed up or tested ?

[Guest harry snotter]

relay, solenoid?

[reg 0]

Yeah i know, i need to test the startermotor. But reading the Haynes it looks like a really long job having to more the inflet manifold. I thought if i could test this brown multiplug it might be a better first option.

[reg 0]

Ok so i've taken off the inlet manifold to see the solenoid and the starter motor. The solenoid itself has two tick wires, one in and one out. Connected together at the top of the solenoid and another wire is connected at the bottom. the wire at the bottom is a thin wire going from the solenoid to the starter motor. The solenoid also has a place for another wire, which doesn't seem to be connected, and there is no wire lose to connect to it????

 

Can anyone clarify this before i blow up my car!!! to test the starter motor i just need to connect the positive from the battery to the thin wire going from the solenoid to the starter motor?

 

Any help would be great.

Edited April 14, 2007 by reg

[reg 0]

I done what kate205gti said. i connected a wire from the positive on the battery to the spade connection on the sonide. the starter motor kicked into life. but i didnt leave it running as the inlet manifold is still off. as i said in the previous post. there is no wire connected to the spade connection on the sonide. i take it that there should be a wire from the barrell to that spade connection. or am i mistaken. any help would be great thanks

Edited April 14, 2007 by reg

[kate205gti 4]

ur spade connectors just fallen off then - always used to happen to me!

 

fish around and u'll find it around somewhere - then crimp a new spade onto it to stop it falling off again

[reg 0]

Yeah your dead right.

 

This must of happened before as someone had wired in a new wire from the barrel into the engine bay, it wasn't connected so i thought it was for the alarm.

 

So i but everything back and it ticks over but just splutters a bit and then dies out like its out of petrol or flooded.

 

To dark to test out now, at least its better than it was.

 

After all that it was just a loose wire. Doh

But now i've taken everthining apart i've done something else to make it not start

Live and learn hey...

 

thank you all for your help. If i don't get any further with it tomorrow i'll be back.

Edited April 14, 2007 by reg

[reg 0]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so on to new problems.

 

Engine starts ticks over but then dies as if the choke isn't kicking in. no matter how much gas i give it it still dies. I get white smoke from the exhaust (not constantly).

 

I'm certian that i've reconnected everything that i took apart to get to the starter motor. It's not miss firing. Although it doesn't run long enough for me to test for sparks from the HT leads.

 

 

HELP what have i done.

Edited April 15, 2007 by reg

[reg 0]

sorry i know i'm talking to myself a lot on this post.

 

Update:

missed a hose that was attached to the hose which goes from the AFM to the inlet manifold. It now will continue running if i give it enough gas, but has constant white smoke from my rear end

 

Only thing i can think off is that some realy some where is now buggered, but would that produce white smoke? does white smoke mean its running to rich?

Edited April 15, 2007 by reg

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Black smoke = rich

Blue smoke = oil

White smoke = water (usually condensation from the exhaust but can also indicate a duff head gasket)

 

Rob

[steve@cornwall 100]

Black smoke = rich

Blue smoke = oil

White smoke = water (usually condensation from the exhaust but can also indicate a duff head gasket)

 

Rob

 

Hi, I'd whip off the manifold again, clean both mating surfaces again and refit with a silicon "instant gasket".

Sounds like you may have some water getting to the ports from the waterways that should be blanked off by the gasket.

[reg 0]

Thanks for the info Rob and Steve.

 

I put on a new gasket i got from GSF for £14.00. The old gasket was ruined. Its still smoking but thats probably because i never bothered draining the water probably and just let it piss out all over the engine. Doh.

 

Hopefully its just a matter of leaving it for a bit till all the water goes for the inside cylinders.

 

Reg