S16 Brakes Vs Gti6 Brakes

[david932 0]

im interested in peoples opinions about s16 front set ups and gti6 front set ups(and with which master cylinder). any information about either set up would be of great help.

 

thanks

[WildCards 0]

I've got S16 brakes I believe on my HDi Estate (266mm) and they're very good, not complaints whatsoever. However 283mm GTi-6 discs are bound to be better, makes sense... bigger discs/bigger surface area means shorter stopping distances.

[Ahl 4]

That doesn't necessarily mean shorter stopping distances does it though? It means your wheels lock up faster!

 

The 266mm setup is reportedly more than enough for even heavily modified peugeots, but obviously the 283mm setup has more kudos...and more unsprung weight!

 

Don't forget that you can also get similar 266mm and 283mm setups off the Peugeot 307 too. Do a search for more information on which models etc.

[david932 0]

while doing a search i've found this quote

 

"Just a word to the wise, the same discs & calipers are fitted to several 306 models, the S16, Mk2 306 1.6 & 1.8 estate & the 206 1.6 16v XSi, GTi & 2.0 HDi AFAIK but not the newer 1.4HDi 206, they are only 247mm's I found out the hard way."

 

does this mean all these run the same hub as a 1.9/gti6/s16?

 

i also found some contradicting theory's that s16 brakes can be run on 1.6 hubs or xs hubs and they can be run on 1.9hubs under 14" 1.6 pepperpot

 

can anyone confirm any of this?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

AFAIK S16 brakes cannot be fitted to 1.6 GTi hubs but they will fit onto the XS & base model 205 hubs as these run the same offset as the 1.9 discs.

 

The hubs can differ as some have a larger balljoint than others but they have the same offset pattern.

 

I take it you've read this topic.

 

Graham.

[david932 0]

yeah had a read but it wasn't conclusive, not enough specifics mentioned.

 

so doe's this mean i can run on my oringinally a 1.6gti: s16 brakes with 266 discs, xs hubs, and 1.6 shafts?

[GLPoomobile 958]

I am NOT speaking from experience here, so sorry if this just adds confusion. You possibly can use the S16 calipers on 1.6 hubs BUT you wouldn't be able to use the corresponding disks due to the different offset.

 

I say this because you can use 1.9 calipers on 1.6 hubs (I do), and it is just the disk that is the issue.

 

I'm just making an assumption here. And to be honest, if it is possible its probably a pointless upgrade.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

so doe's this mean i can run on my oringinally a 1.6gti: s16 brakes with 266 discs, xs hubs, and 1.6 shafts?

Yes, thats basically the set up Jim had fitted to his brothers STDT as mentioned in that topic.

 

Using the 266mm calipers on the 1.6 GTi 247mm discs would be a bad idea, there would be a certain area of the pad not being used in this instance, you'd have to use the 266mm calipers & yokes so they would be sat further out from the hub centre.

 

Graham.

[david932 0]

ok gotcha

Edited March 14, 2007 by david932

[Higgy 0]

I run GTi-6 with standard master cylinder and NO rear compensators (1.9 GTi).

 

The set-up seem fine. I prefer a longer brake pedal travel, even so its not that bad unless you are used to driving modern cars!

 

With no compensators/GTi-6 & standard master cylinder the rear wheels do NOT lock up first. I found this out first hand experience last weekend.

 

Hope this helps. Get the GTi-6 brakes, and gain the extra kudos points

 

Higgy.

[david932 0]

I run GTi-6 with standard master cylinder and NO rear compensators (1.9 GTi).

 

The set-up seem fine. I prefer a longer brake pedal travel, even so its not that bad unless you are used to driving modern cars!

 

With no compensators/GTi-6 & standard master cylinder the rear wheels do NOT lock up first. I found this out first hand experience last weekend.

 

Hope this helps. Get the GTi-6 brakes, and gain the extra kudos points

 

Higgy.

 

thanks for the info Higgy, im not certain yet but i think i want to keep the alloys @14" so it'll prob be s16 if they are up to the job.

 

Would s16 fit over this offset wheel 6J x 14 ET16? im thinking i might run compomotive mo's in white instead of the pepperpots

[WildCards 0]

That doesn't necessarily mean shorter stopping distances does it though? It means your wheels lock up faster!

 

I know what your saying, but being able to lock up your wheels is not indicative of 'enough' stopping power. For instance, can you lock up 266mm brakes repeatedly as many times as 283mm brakes?, does fade occur at similiar points given an equal test? How quickly does the pad and disc wear on the smaller setup to the larger? etc etc. Unless someone had the spondoolies for fancy pants carbon discs and pads and the like i'd always say bigger is better depending on the application.

 

I've been in a 306 with 6 brakes and they were very good. I've been in a 306 with Porsche 6 pots up front and the were incredible. Likewise my Legnum had standard 2 pots up front which were very good with the right pads, a Legnum with Brembo 4 pots is even better and a Legnum with AP 6 pots had stopping distances that would be life saving compared to the others if the situation was there.

 

So in short, i'd advise the bigger ones.

[Rippthrough 98]

I know what your saying, but being able to lock up your wheels is not indicative of 'enough' stopping power. For instance, can you lock up 266mm brakes repeatedly as many times as 283mm brakes?, does fade occur at similiar points given an equal test? How quickly does the pad and disc wear on the smaller setup to the larger? etc etc. Unless someone had the spondoolies for fancy pants carbon discs and pads and the like i'd always say bigger is better depending on the application.

 

I've been in a 306 with 6 brakes and they were very good. I've been in a 306 with Porsche 6 pots up front and the were incredible. Likewise my Legnum had standard 2 pots up front which were very good with the right pads, a Legnum with Brembo 4 pots is even better and a Legnum with AP 6 pots had stopping distances that would be life saving compared to the others if the situation was there.

 

So in short, i'd advise the bigger ones.

 

 

Is it worth the extra unsprung and rotational mass though? I've got 266's with 1144's on a hefty 306 and I haven't managed to get any fade yet.

[david932 0]

quicker acceleration from smaller wheels and whats mentioned above about mass is the reasons why i would like to stick with 14" wheels and 266mm brakes, although the car will be used on track so brake fade may be an issue

 

im not sure how to compromise the issue whether to have more total weight and more unsprung mass but possibly better braking or less total weight, less unsprung mass, quicker acceleration and possibly less responsive brakes

 

and my previous question Would s16 fit over this offset wheel 6J x 14 ET16? or is this the same offset as standard? im thinking i might run compomotive mo's in white instead of the pepperpots

Edited March 15, 2007 by david932

[WildCards 0]

Is it worth the extra unsprung and rotational mass though? I've got 266's with 1144's on a hefty 306 and I haven't managed to get any fade yet.

 

Up to you. I'd go to GTi-6 or GTi180 brakes at most on a 205, 206 or 306 because I believe they offer the best compromise between braking efficiency and weight.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

and my previous question Would s16 fit over this offset wheel 6J x 14 ET16? or is this the same offset as standard? im thinking i might run compomotive mo's in white instead of the pepperpots

They should, the 1.6 GTi wheels offset is et 25 & the 1.9's are et18. I've got some 106 S2 Rallye steel rims that are et16 but without a built up hub etc with the 266mm brakes on I can't check but I'm sure I've read a post somewhere that they clear.

 

Graham.

[pdd144c 0]

Keep the standard brakes and fit 1155 or 1166 pads, decent fluid and braided lines. Be ample for what you are using your car for.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I know the older 405's used a 14" rim so they do stand a chance of fitting

[david932 0]

yeah had a read but it wasn't conclusive, not enough specifics mentioned.

 

so doe's this mean i can run on my oringinally a 1.6gti: s16 brakes(calipers and carriers) with 266 discs, xs hubs, and 1.6gti shafts?

 

can some people confirm this for me please. i've been told in another thread that xs hubs wont fit 1.6gti shafts

 

thanks

[taylorspug 7]

Replied in your other thread aswell, but just to confirm, xs hubs will fit the 1.6 shafts.

[Super Josh 4]

I run GTi-6 with standard master cylinder and NO rear compensators (1.9 GTi).

 

 

Higgy, how did you remove your compensators? Did you drill out the ball bearing and spring? or replace then with an adapter. How difficult was it?

 

 

 

 

Josh

[Higgy 0]

I was going to drill, but I thought the swarf might not all come out and end-up going into the brake system.

 

Its a lot easier if you are changing your brake lines as you just run one long bit of brake pipe.

 

I basically unbolted the compensators and put in a short length of pipe with the correct end fitting.

 

NOTE HOWEVER: I tried EVERYWHERE to get a male M12x1(?) brake pipe fitting but no luck. So you HAVE to cut off the existing brake pipe fitting and put on a 'normal' M10x1 fitting and flair the brake pipe (this is on the side towards the front on the car).

 

Because of this it might be easier drilling out the compensators? There is quite a bit inside them however:

 

 

As you have to make a short 'link' pipe with flairs & fittings its not too diffcuilt cutting & flairing the existing pipe. You have to unclip the existing pipe near the downpipe so you can swing the pipe out from under the car so you can cut/flair easier.

 

Higgy.

[Super Josh 4]

Thanks for that Higgy. The problem that I have is that I've already fitted copper brake lines and don't really want the hassle/expense of getting new ones made up and threading over the petrol tank again. Although if i have to, I will.

Has anyone else drilled out the internals from a compensator? Any advice? I wonder if you can drill out one end and the the internals will just fall out?

 

 

 

Josh

[Higgy 0]

Just get a little link pipe made to go where the compensators sit and leave the tank alone. (50mm long with 2 M10 female fittings.

 

I guess it depends on where your compensators are. Mine where just in front of rear wheels.