Hand Brake Opinions

[joni 0]

Need to find out more info quickly on what people think about 205's with drums and discs in relation to how well the handbrake works for tight hairpins /u turns etc.

 

As i compete in road rallies i need a good handbrake. While i've got a few opinions on the other thread i thought it would be good to try and get more opinions by starting a new thread purely aimed at the handbrake.

 

Drums work well for me (when correctly adjusted) but i want to know if discs will be as good on the handbrake as i have a 309 GTI rear beam sitting at home with discs (which apparently i can't put the drums from my 1.6 gti axle on as they don't fit - is this true)

 

Please respond asap!!!

[welshpug 1,666]

personally opn a light car like a 205 discs are over the top IMO, and the handbrake isnt as good as a drum brake operated one, if it was then why do many manufacturers incorporate a drum parking brake inside a disc rear brake?!

 

1.6 gti drum bits will fit onto the 309 beam easily, but if its a rally car surely the reduced travel wouldn't be a good idea? (the wheels stick out further and catch the wings earlier)

[Craigb 2]

Discs aren't as good as drums for handbrake turns unless you are running a hydraulic handbrake .

 

Also , don't go any harder than std pads on the back .

 

I couldn't get a good handbrake on mine until i went back to std pads and discs

 

If you are going staging then uprated is a possible benefit on the back

[hengti 2]

similar opinion to Welshpug - discs aren't really needed on the back - they do next to no work; Peugeot marketing?

 

with std discs and pads, i've never managed to get the handbrake to do anything on Autotests - waste of time

 

drums must be better!

Edited March 14, 2007 by hengti

[Rob Thomson 6]

When I first got my 309 (rear discs) the handbrake was sh*t, but new pads, discs, and cables sorted it out. Thereafter I never had any problems making it twirl, with standard pads or later M1144s.

 

My 205 1.6 has drums, and the handbrake is no better than the well maintained discs on the 309.

 

The 106 has discs on the back, with a hydraulic handbrake. That's really excellent, you can lock 'em up in a straight line on dry tarmac. I also like quite a lot of rear bias on the brakes, so I'm happier with discs that aren't so prone to fade and are easier to inspect and maintain.

 

Horses for courses, but I've always found the standard discs more than adequate for twirling as long as they're in vaguely good condition.

[SPGTi 2]

I run std discs and pads (well cheapo motorfactor ones) at the rear on my road rally car with a hydraulic handbrake and they lock up OK. I am just crap at using the handbrake.

Most of the other people running 205s in the auto club I belong to also run discs at the back and twirl quite happily. They use upright hydraulic handbrakes. A good improvement is running braided line at the rear.

I also give the handbrake a few tweeks during the night to help get a bit of heat into the pads.

 

Steve

[hengti 2]

no idea why it should be (maybe it's a weight thing), but have read stuff before about the 309 disc handbrake being more effective than the 205 one for h'brake turns

[Baz 421]

I'll agree with much of the above, i always used to think the drums were soo much better as they locked easier, therefore better/cheaper for rallying etc, as never any of my disc braked rear 205's ever locked as well as the drums, that is, until i had my last 309, had well maintained discs and pads, braided lines all round, and locked the handbrake really well, not sure why there'd be a difference between 205 and 309 rear disc setups but i was turned around in thought anyway.

[welshpug 1,666]

there isnt any difference at all in the braking systems, though the balance of the car is quite different.

[Rob Thomson 6]

I am just crap at using the handbrake.

It just takes practise. You have to be going fairly quick when you pull the bar, you probably want to initiate the turn at 30+mph for most corners... I think that's the thing that takes time to learn; the confidence you need to flick the car and yank on the bar at what seem like daft speeds... It also helps to have a good synchro on 1st, so you can bang it into gear before the corner.

 

I also give the handbrake a few tweeks during the night to help get a bit of heat into the pads.

I should have mentioned that... I ditched the compensators on the 309 and consequently the discs would always be clean and warm, which helps no end when you use the handbrake.

[chownr 0]

My road rally car used to have drums on the back and handbrake turns were a breeze. I then got hold of a 1.9 beam that I reocnditioned and went with the disc setup for all of 2 events before swapping back to drums. The handbrake was never as efficient but I found the maintenance and equal bias (L to R) of the disc setup made the car more stable under heavy braking.

 

Last year we went staging and found I used the handbrake much less. Swapped back to discs towards the end of the year and have just added a hydraulic handbrake over the winter.

 

Unless you want to run a hydraulic handbrake (and dont forget that if you trail brake before handbraking you wont be able to do this with a hydraulic setup) Id stick with the drums

 

Hope this helps

 

Rich

[joni 0]

Cheers for such a rapid response!

 

Sounds like i've got my answer i.e. most poeple are in favour of drums.

 

Apparently i need to remove the stub axle from the 309 and put on the 205 one in order to run the drums on the 309 beam.

 

Has anybody got any experience of removing the stub axle and any tips for removing the (disc) bearing/hub from the 309 stub axle if i will need to do this? i've bought a 3 armed gear puller which may help.

[Rob Thomson 6]

and dont forget that if you trail brake before handbraking you wont be able to do this with a hydraulic setup

I think it depends on the type of master cylinder you have. From memory, Girling cylinders are prone to becoming hydraulically locked, but AP are fine. I've got an AP MC on the 106's handbrake and have never had any problems. I trail-brake before handbraking all the time.

 

I imagine you'll need to have the stub-axles pressed out, but that's only a guess...

[joni 0]

Looks like i just need to smack the stub axles to get them out. The only problem being that i will need the 1.6 gti stub axles so hope i don't damage them in the process! Will stick a nut on the end to avoid damaging them badly.

 

Lots of fun. On the plus side should be keeping the WD40 manufacturers in business.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Has anybody got any experience of removing the stub axle and any tips for removing the (disc) bearing/hub from the 309 stub axle if i will need to do this? i've bought a 3 armed gear puller which may help.

You will need to fit drum brake stub axles to use them as the disc one is longer.

 

The task is the same on both axles but the main thing is make sure you protect the end of the stub axle or use a soft mallet, I've knocked them out before (usually quite easily) but have mushroomed the end of the stub axle & the hub nut wouldn't go back on afterwards.

 

Also the (Allen) bolts holding the back plates onto the radius arm can be a pain & round off when you are un-doing them. Its worse on the disc beam as access is restricted by the caliper mount.

 

When its all back togther post swap you are supposed to tighthen the hub nut to 250lbft iirc to make sure the stub axle is properly seated in the radius arm. The figure is in the PTS rallybuild manual iirc.

 

Graham.