Upgradeing Euro Rallye To 1600 Ccm

[dj_masch_hr 0]

I own a 205 1300 rallye and want to upgrade it to 1600.

I have 1600 TU block and I wonder which head gasket to use, and which timing belt when fitting 1.3 head with carbs.

Thanks in advance.

[TKH 0]

You have to use the 1.6 gasket. The iron XU engines are not light though. Have you thought about putting a alloy XU in?

[dj_masch_hr 0]

thank you thk. I already have 1.9 rallye with MI16 engine. i would like to upgrade this engine.

 

any advice for the belt?

[TKH 0]

On the 106 rallye with iron bottom end you just use belt and pulleys off the iron engine. Would guess it would be the same for your engine. The iron block is something like 8mm taller than your alloy black though so you may have problems with your exhaust.

Edited March 6, 2007 by TKH

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

yes...exhaust needs to be modified

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

You'll need to modify the top mount too so the manifold can fit.

 

Compression will skyrocket

[dj_masch_hr 0]

thnx. i allready have an 1.4 xs exhaust, i belive it will fit just fine.

 

all tu heads should be the same, so i need 1.6 timing belt because the watter pump is placed elsewhere than on 1.3 block. i belive i can finish it on saturday.

 

today i will remove head from rallye, rebuild it tomorrow, and fit it on saturday (i don't have free time on thursday & friday).

Edited March 6, 2007 by dj_masch_hr

[Guest Nuno205Rallye]

Not meaning to be rude, but, what does an iron block TU give you that an original TU24 can´t?

 

 

Euro rallyes are already becoming so rare, and the TU24 is a precious angry little engine... oh my oh my...

[dj_masch_hr 0]

@nuno205rallye: more torque at lower rpm.

[TKH 0]

Not meaning to be rude, but, what does an iron block TU give you that an original TU24 can´t?

Euro rallyes are already becoming so rare, and the TU24 is a precious angry little engine... oh my oh my...

 

I was thinking the same. The torque increase will not be that great but the weight increase will be very noticeable. The car is also rare and the engine even more so. Just a shame to mess about. A full 106 XSI or 106 S2 rally engine would be the better way to go anyhoo. Or the most logical would just be sell the car and get a 205 1.6 GTI. Thats would also solve the MA box problem.

[calvinhorse 870]

you need the rear of engine to radiator hose from the 1600

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

dj_masch_hr I don't see the harm in trying. If you don't like it then hey you can always put the 1.3 block back on. The increased capacity will also raise the compression a lot without having to resort to a heavy skim or expensive forged pocketd pistons.

 

Keep us updated anyhow.

 

What flywheel and clutch are you planning to use?

[dj_masch_hr 0]

1.3 rallye clutch and flywheel, as 1.6 flywheel is pretty heavier.

[dj_masch_hr 0]

ok. here's an update of what's been done during the weekend.

 

fitted whole 1.6 engine. in a day or two the 1.3 head should be renewed and fitted instead of 1.6 head.

 

standard 1.3 flywheel is 2 kg lighter than 1.6 one. same thing is with camshaft pulley - it's 0,2 kg lighter than 1.6 one.

 

will keep you informed of progress.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

What 1.6 block is it actually?

 

Did you have issues with the engine mount or gearbox?

 

Do you have some pics:-)

Edited March 12, 2007 by christopher

[dj_masch_hr 0]

pics are coming up very soon.

 

yes, we did have issues with rear upper engine mount. it's a 306 block and we had to use 106 1.6 rallye rear upper mount.

[TKH 0]

Are you modifying the 1.3 flywheel to take a 200mm clutch?

[calvinhorse 870]

ok. here's an update of what's been done during the weekend.

 

fitted whole 1.6 engine. in a day or two the 1.3 head should be renewed and fitted instead of 1.6 head.

 

standard 1.3 flywheel is 2 kg lighter than 1.6 one. same thing is with camshaft pulley - it's 0,2 kg lighter than 1.6 one.

 

will keep you informed of progress.

 

i didnt like the way the belt sat so close to the edge on the 1.6 pully but yours may be different

[dj_masch_hr 0]

Are you modifying the 1.3 flywheel to take a 200mm clutch?

 

all parts are supposed to be standard. we are planning to fit 1.3 flywheel, clutch and xs/rallye gearbox (they are the same).

[drmo 5]

Congats on mods mate I have done to mine almost the same things. 1.6 TU5 block from 306, head from 1.3 litre AX sport with two twin webers. Gearbox is from 306 (a little bit long), the clutch and flywheel also. It runs much better than before with TU3 block. I think that the clutch from TU5 is much better option.

 

Today was the first day on the road, lots of torque in the lover rpm range and puls really good in higher rpm, though i haven't tried it over 6,5k rpm yet.

 

Pozdrav iz Slovenije, i svaka čast za ove modifikacije.

 

Luka

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Congats on mods mate I have done to mine almost the same things. 1.6 TU5 block from 306, head from 1.3 litre AX sport with two twin webers. Gearbox is from 306 (a little bit long), the clutch and flywheel also. It runs much better than before with TU3 block. I think that the clutch from TU5 is much better option.

 

Today was the first day on the road, lots of torque in the lover rpm range and puls really good in higher rpm, though i haven't tried it over 6,5k rpm yet.

 

Pozdrav iz Slovenije, i svaka čast za ove modifikacije.

 

Luka

 

Luka,

 

Did you adjust the carb jetting?

 

How would you describe the reviness of the engine? Some people would expect the longer stroke to affect this.

Edited March 20, 2007 by christopher

[drmo 5]

I did't adjust anything that is what it bugs me. It drives smother than before, and goes a lot beter, a lot more torque at lower and middle rpm. I have weber DCOM's which come standard on euro 205 1.3 rallye. When I was calculating the jets for 1.4 litre setup, figures came a little smaler than they were actually. The main venturi is 34 but I thought it should be 32, although I read that on DCOM's venturis and idle jets have to be a little biger than on DCOE's. I haven't tried it yet over 6500, and the weather here in slovenia is silly (it snows again, and I already put on the summer tires )

I will get back to you when the weather gets beter. I have to adjust the fire timing (I don't know the right word )

Here is a short clip from yesterday:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1061332372454697422

and a longer one from inside (just testing everything):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5617229649681897448

 

Luka

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

Luka you should you should cut down on the Lucky Strikes with that cough

 

Its pretty hard to tell with those videos. But its hard to compare since you have a different gearbox too. Look forward to seeing some more...

 

205 Rallye comes with huge 34mm chokes and the AX sport with 32mm and Solex. The idle jet on the DCOM is supposed to be a bit bigger then DCOE. I think it is beacuse of the 5 progression holds compared to the usual 3 on a DCOE.

 

I can't imagine that you wouldn't have to adjust the jetting with the 1,6 block but I'm no expert in the area. Must it not be running weak?

Edited March 20, 2007 by christopher

[drmo 5]

haha...smokers cough ...but I don't smoke

 

The webers came with the head from ax, and when I was cleaning them i wrote down the numbers of jets. I'm not an expert either, so when all is done I will get someone who knows exactly what he's doing to jet them right I think that it should rev a little bit more, although less than before with 1.4 block (before it did 7500rpm).

 

It runs a lot smother and pulls a lot better than with 1.4 block

 

I was learning from a manual that I found on the internet - Selection and tuning of Weber DCOE carburettors from Dave Andrews. I have done it a couple times and now there is no rocking of the engine, no spitting back through the back of the carburettor, everything seems to be ok. But I won't be sure untill some expert will tell

Edited March 20, 2007 by drmo

[dj_masch_hr 0]

today we started the engine. we pulled gasoline out of the bottle and started it witohout radiator...

 

it sounds very powerfull... i hope we will test it on the road on the weekend