Mi16 Conversion Parts

[WildCards 0]

I'm looking at dropping an Mi engine into my 1.6 and have been advised to buy the following parts for a perfect conversion. I don't want to do the conversion on the cheap as I want a reliable track day car, but I don't want to pay through the nose either.

 

I have searched and it seems there is mixed opinion on what is needed and what isn't, but as I said, I'd rather pay £1000 and have a pukka job than £300 and have problems down the line.

 

I already have an alloy Mi engine, but am I right in thinking i'd need to buy;

• Shortened Mi16 Intake Manifold & Gasket
  
• Re-angled Mi16 Exhaust Manifold & Gasket
  
• Extended Ignition Leads
  
• Uprated Lower Engine Mount
  
• Mi16 ECU
  
• Spliced 8v/Mi16 Loom
  
• Mi16 Clutch & Flywheel
  
• Full Uprated (Samco?) Hose set
  

Anything else i've missed you think I would be wise to add to my shopping list

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Shortened Mi16 Intake Manifold & Gasket (I would as with many people keep the std length and cut down the Rad Cowling)

Re-angled Mi16 Exhaust Manifold & Gasket (I';d use the spacer plate (QEP as then replaing the manifolds is cheaper if they split or leak, or the 4-2-1 conversion manifold which I supply)

Extended Ignition Leads (Not needed if you use the 16v loom, Only if using the 8v loom with Dizzy adp you need these)

Uprated Lower Engine Mount (Baker Bushes, Forum Sponser)

Mi16 ECU (And Loom)

Spliced 8v/Mi16 Loom (Only need to swap a few wires over as found in the guides on this site)

Mi16 Clutch & Flywheel (yes)

Full Uprated (Samco?) Hose set (Again Baker Bushes, About half the cost of the Samco ones)

[WildCards 0]

Cheers Miles, good man. I guess i'll be ringing you as and when for some bits and bobs.

 

Steve

[Martin@PRD 0]

I'm looking at dropping an Mi engine into my 1.6 and have been advised to buy the following parts for a perfect conversion. I don't want to do the conversion on the cheap as I want a reliable track day car, but I don't want to pay through the nose either.

 

 

I have searched and it seems there is mixed opinion on what is needed and what isn't, but as I said, I'd rather pay £1000 and have a pukka job than £300 and have problems down the line.

 

 

[*]Shortened Mi16 Intake Manifold & Gasket

[*]Re-angled Mi16 Exhaust Manifold & Gasket

[*]Extended Ignition Leads

[*]Uprated Lower Engine Mount

[*]Mi16 ECU

[*]Spliced 8v/Mi16 Loom

[*]Mi16 Clutch & Flywheel

[*]Full Uprated (Samco?) Hose set

Anything else i've missed you think I would be wise to add to my shopping list

 

 

 

For a conversion looking as if its come from factory and also to fit a MI16 as easy as a gti engine within 4 hours we use and recommend the following.

 

Fit Group N Lower mount

Professional Re-angled exhaust manifold (fit before engine is in car)

Plug and play Mi16 Motronic loom and Ecu (feed through bulkhead and plug it in 10 minutes job)

Shortened Inlet manifold (fit and feed through and plug in injectors and idle controller)

 

 

Sample photo with the above

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/DSC00201.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/DSC00202.jpg

 

 

If you ever come to sell your car at a later date you can show that the conversion has been professional converted with out the dodgy Re-angled manifold that crack and dodgy wiring that decides to work when it wants to, which will add to the cars value and reliability

 

 

Here are a few pictures to explain what I mean, as I have done LOADS tidying up of already fitted MI16 from so called Peugeot specialists.

 

Wiring issues, how not to plug and play

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/100_6289.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/100_6288.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/100_6291.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tomoprd/100_6293.jpg

 

 

 

Cracking exhaust manifolds

 

 

As you can see they suffer from cracking around the collector and if you unlucky also inside on the divider, all manifolds crack at one point in there lives only way around it is to seam weld them, so they shouldnt crack again, (sorry not disclosing any info or I will be selling myself sort) I have converted over 50 manifolds in the last 18-19 months and NEVER had one back and have also repaired a lot of Diy efforts from well know people from this site too (no names) so I can safely say Im the most experienced in this department

 

With the re-angled plate you will still suffer from cracking manifolds and still run a significant risk of modifying the down pipe over a re-angled manifold (Not directed at QEP as they didnt invent or are the only company to make them, so dont jump on the ban wagon and have a go)

 

I would also remove the sump and either clean the Oil pump strainer out or replace, Im sorry if I sound that Im plugging but its they way I find things in my day to day job working on 205s and 309s

 

 

Oil strainer on so called Rebuilt Mi16 (A well know Peugeot specialist)

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/tom...fPicture008.jpg

 

 

Oil strainer on 120k MI16

 

[smckeown 1]

if its out then i'd defo consider a mini bottom rebuild.

[Martin@PRD 0]

if its out then i'd defo consider a mini bottom rebuild.

 

Yes, big end replacement will tell you a lot about a engine life, specially number 1 nearest the flywheel.

 

No, its opening a can of worms

 

High mileage Mi16 engine rattle when just started until film of oil is built up on journals for bearing to float on, this is were the tolerance has exceeded there limits,

 

Trashed and poorly looked after engines knock on engine deceleration/engine braking.

 

Here are some examples

 

 

High mileage, usual wear

 

 

 

Thrashed engine with big end failure

 

 

 

 

 

Spun shell,

 

 

 

Spot the difference

 

 

 

 

The problem is once you find this how far do you go with a rebuild?

 

For example find its had a long life, what do you do?

 

Replace big ends and leave, to find rings, liners and valve stem seals are worn once engine is in?

 

Replace the lot?

 

Sell the bastard thing?

Edited February 13, 2007 by Martin@PRD

[boldy205 75]

He he!! Martin you sound like my Dad after we took my MI16 apart!! ( I mean this i jest!!)

It is true where do you stop, if you know the history/what the engine was like before then you may have an idea of what needs doing. If it aint broke dont fix it. Then in the same breath dont cry when it does break and you have got to take the lot apart again!

Ps, slight hijack, the 8v hoses fit the 16v in a 205 yea? Do they need chopping about?

Chears

Matt.

[Ren 0]

Steve, if you want to pop round and take a look at my install send me a pm at some point.

 

Currently the engine is sat on a pallet in the garage but will hopefully be back in by the end of the week. I run a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold specially designed for the MI into 205 and I ran a shortened inlet. While the engine was removed I noticed that the welds on the inlet have cracked and i'm hoping this is what was causing my kangarooing. Just got hold of a full length inlet and will be fitting that. The loom I had made up by 205parts in Kibworth as I was having electrical/wiring issues and the pipes were a mixture of 8v and 16v stuff. This is changing as well as my silicone set from Baker Bm arrived in the post this morning.

 

Boldy - not sure if you can use all the 8v stuff as I had both vehicles to take hoses from. The baker set are a good price and look like a very good product though.

 

 

Hope this is of some help.

 

Ren.

 

Edit:- Steve, I've also got some bits that may be of use to you depending on which route you take to fit the engine.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Ren

[petert 587]

Professional Re-angled exhaust manifold (fit before engine is in car)

 

I don't want to start a war, but I thought I'd just pick up on this point. I also make wedges (www.taylor-eng.com), which are fitted together with the manifold before it goes back in the car. My preferred method is to lift the engine UP from underneath.

[Martin@PRD 0]

I don't want to start a war, but I thought I'd just pick up on this point. I also make wedges (www.taylor-eng.com), which are fitted together with the manifold before it goes back in the car. My preferred method is to lift the engine UP from underneath.

 

 

I have ever only used a crane twice, I rather lift up the chassis and slide engine under than try to swing a lump of an engine swinging over the engine bay, trying to advoid lumps and holes in my workshop floor

[WildCards 0]

Cheers Ren, appreciate the offer mate which i'll be taking you up on at some point.

 

And thanks to everyone else who has replied. I've been enquiring about getting the engine checked out before I start buying parts and thinking about doing the install as I haven't a clue what it's like, it came with the car on a pallet! I think i'd rather buy all the right parts and have a reliable car than have to bugger about with it in the future. I'm not much of a tinkerer, I just want to drive the bloody thing.

[inferno 1]

I have ever only used a crane twice, I rather lift up the chassis and slide engine under than try to swing a lump of an engine swinging over the engine bay, trying to advoid lumps and holes in my workshop floor

 

deffo a very easy way to do it on your own if you dont have a hoist. if you go removing it from the top its worth buying a load leveler and making sure u have a nice floor surface with no holes to get stuck in

 

ive used both regular and shorter inlets, my inlet had a poor job made of it, but im sure PRD would be a good finish. didnt really notice much difference on the rolling road between the two, it appeared to have moved the powerband up a little, but at the time there seemed to be doubts about the rolling road figures, so who knows.

 

ive NEVER had an oil surge problem using the extended bottom mount, but ive also used home made reangled manifolds and downpipes, if your manifolds cracked/not there, its worth getting it made to fit before engine goes in.

 

IMO the only way to wire this engine up properly is with the original 16v loom and ecu. the bx16v loom is long enough to reroute and shorten and fit the ecu under the dash where its meant to be. ive only once used an mi loom and that was on a citroen zx where the ecu stays under the bonnet. you can keep /join the 205 senser loom to the engine senser loom, but defo worth replacing with new wiring here.

[P_205GTi 0]

im currently converting my 205 to mi16 power, im having my engine rebuilt by miles at the moment as using an 80-100k engine isn't worth hassle in my opinion as you could have further problems down the line. A rebuild isn't cheap but is definitely worth from my previously experience of my other rebuild engines.i have also bought a 4-2-1 manifold to solve bulkhead issue's. i can vouch for (stews) Baker Bushes' 16v hoses they are amazing quality and a good price at that and would recommend buying a set along with the uprated lower from him too.

[huzzer 0]

Another Hijack!

 

Have just fitted one of Martins (prd) reangled exhaust manifolds (which I'm very pleased with) but the down pipe from the original exhaust now fouls on the cross member of the subframe.

 

Does anyone have a diagram or can explain how to sort this. Can MIG if needs be but have no access to gas welding.

 

Cheers,

[yeti-dj 7]

Another Hijack!

 

Have just fitted one of Martins (prd) reangled exhaust manifolds (which I'm very pleased with) but the down pipe from the original exhaust now fouls on the cross member of the subframe.

 

Does anyone have a diagram or can explain how to sort this. Can MIG if needs be but have no access to gas welding.

 

Cheers,

 

i saw this one on another 205 site and the guy simply cut off the bar on the sub frame and moved it forward a little, not sure if this is a good idea but its a cure to your problem without cutting the exhaust up...

Edited February 14, 2007 by yeti-dj

[huzzer 0]

i saw this one on another 205 site and the guy simply cut off the bar on the sub frame and moved it forward a little, not sure if this is a good idea but its a cure to your problem without cutting the exhaust up...

 

 

Is this the solution? Is it safe?

[boombang 2]

I've had a couple of Mi converted cars with modified exhaust manifolds and not had any issues with cracking or fouling.

 

I wouldn't expect there to be either - I value my time pretty highly and TBH if I paid £XXX for something to fit I'd expect it to, otherwise I'd send it back.

 

If it is hitting the subframe, could well be that the downpipe isn't the right one.

 

All mine have been in 309s though so inlet manifold is no issue.

 

I wouldn't bother with a shortened manifold when it is so simple to drop the rad (although yet again if I have to spend 2 hours making up brackets I'd consider buying some!).

[huzzer 0]

I've had a couple of Mi converted cars with modified exhaust manifolds and not had any issues with cracking or fouling.

 

I wouldn't expect there to be either - I value my time pretty highly and TBH if I paid £XXX for something to fit I'd expect it to, otherwise I'd send it back.

 

If it is hitting the subframe, could well be that the downpipe isn't the right one.

 

All mine have been in 309s though so inlet manifold is no issue.

 

I wouldn't bother with a shortened manifold when it is so simple to drop the rad (although yet again if I have to spend 2 hours making up brackets I'd consider buying some!).

 

 

The reangled exhaust manifold is fine, Its the downpipe that fouls. I have already dropped the rad and running engine at normal angle. What have people done to overcome this? move the cross bar or cut and weld the downpipe?

[pacey205 2]

Cut and weld the downpipe. Cut the flange off, work out how much you need to take off to get good clearance/length. Chop and then weld flange back on.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Yep as Pacey's said, Get the angle grinder out to get the flange off then chop the needed pipe off and re-weld up, I think it's a couple of inch's but I;ve only done a couple like that

[Alastairh 47]

Mi conversion vary SOO much. not the quality of the installer its the shell that it goes in.

 

Watching friends who have done double fiqures conversions, and variations in master cylinder clashes etc is rather worying with previously bumped cars.

 

So maybe your problem.

 

Alastair

Edited February 15, 2007 by Alastairh

[Ren 0]

I wouldn't bother with a shortened manifold when it is so simple to drop the rad (although yet again if I have to spend 2 hours making up brackets I'd consider buying some!).

 

Don't bother, I got a quote from DES the other day, £110 + Vat and a 5-7 day delivery time.

[M@tt 77]

if like me you want to do the conversion well but keeping the costs down then you could do what i did

 

i fitted a reangling plate (£60) bit of a bugger to fit with the engine in

 

i had to shorten and reweld the down pipe. I cut this down myself, it's a bit of a ball ache to reomve the old bit of pipe from inside the flange but get yourself some chisels a mallet and an angle grinder. I then tack welded the flange back in place once i had shortened the down pipe sufficiently (ideally need an extra pair of hands to help doing this) and then took it to a local exhaust place for them to weld it up good and proper. took em 10mins (£10)

 

i chopped my rad cowling down so that the radiator could sit further forward without fouling the inlet manifold. You can find plenty of pics on here of what to remove and that way you don't have to make anything if you down have access to stuff all you need is your trusty angle grinder again. (free)

 

So total cost £70 plus a day of fitting and chopping

Edited February 17, 2007 by M@tt

[jim205GTI 3]

I got lucky with my down pipe not contact at all and it looks to sit in a near enough identical position as before ( obviously not of course ... but... ) it is a bosal down pipe and centre box and as for rad cowling had fun with the grinder and just kept test fitting it until it sat right........