RAF_gti 0 Posted January 28, 2007 Firstly..Hello all This site certainly seem's one of the most comprehensive, for any car that I have come across so far! I've a feeling I will be spending many an hour here. Having owned a couple of 309 GTi's back in the day I feel it is time to get back to the old skool so I am currently searching for a nice 205, I did consider a 309 but they are getting kinda rare and tbh I've always had a hankering for a 205. Anyway, on with my assorted question's, I'm sure they have all been asked before and I've used the search function, some were answered, some weren't so please bear with me! BTW..I'm assuning the car I buy will be standard in 'decent' condition and certainly driveable from the off, I know I will have to spend money on it but the car isn't getting bought as a garage project! What is the 'ideal' fast road suspension setup? Billies and SBC springs? 309 wishbones? Ideally, what should I look to replace on the suspension when I get the car? bearings, mounts etc.... Are there any good pug/motorsports specialists in the Oxfordshire area? Any top tips on what to look for on the car? muchos gracias Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim.Badger 15 Posted January 29, 2007 What is the 'ideal' fast road suspension setup? Billies and SBC springs? 309 wishbones? Ideally, what should I look to replace on the suspension when I get the car? bearings, mounts etc.... Are there any good pug/motorsports specialists in the Oxfordshire area? Any top tips on what to look for on the car? It's getting harder to find a good one so spend a looooong time looking over it, something I didn't Plus obviously drive it. There doesn't seem to be a clear cut decision as to what is the best suspension, and I'd stay with the standard 205 wishbones for now as if you're going for a 205 over a 309 you may as well get the proper feel of it before you change anything. Fitting 309 stuff apparently doesn't make it handle like a 309 but I think it's still a good idea to get used to the 205 standard setup first, you may like it. Ideally I'd change all the engine mounts, the topmount rubbers and bumpstops, wishbone bushes and the rear beam mounts as they will probably all be knackered if they haven't been replaced. It's your choice whether you uprate or not but I'd stick with standard 205 wishbone bushes and topmount rubbers as uprated ones can apparently make it a bit more crashy, but there seems to be overwhelming support for group n engine mounts and group a rear beam mounts. I've no idea about specialists in Oxfordshire, but try looking for Citroen specialists as they seem much more common and know as much about our cars as Pug specialists (normally). Look for rust and obvious signs of neglect/care. The main reason I bought mine was because the rear beam had obviously been replaced recently by a fully rebuilt one, however I have moderate rust. Also try and get a completely standard one as there is a slightly reduced change that it's been thrashed. I'd keep it all fairly standard for now so that you can get used to it's characteristics and change what you don't like, plus it's bound to fall apart within the first year of ownership somehow so you'll have a bit more money to spend on repairs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_gti 0 Posted January 29, 2007 Very true, so many variable's on suspension out there I am always kinda paranoid that I havn't got the 'best' solution! The car that I am going to look at has apparently had a wee bit of work done to it including a recon beam, hopefully the rest will reflect that kinda money spent on it. Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLPoomobile 958 Posted January 29, 2007 Regarding what to replace, some will tell you to just replace the bits that you can identify as worn, after all there is no point chucking money at stuff that doesn't need doing! My way of thinking though, is that you will never achieve that 100% 205 handling unless you sort everything out. There is always one componenet that is worn and makes it feel like s*it. This theory, combined with the fact I personally don't have enough exerience to e able to easily identify what parts are worn was the reason why I decided to replace just about everything! So far, I have fitted a reconditioned rear beam with Group A solid mounts, new wishbone bushes, new ARB bushes, new top mount bushes and bearings, new drop links and new track rod ends. I also have Eibach springs. After all this the car is still not spot on and I'm planning on replacing the steering rack, lower column, track rods, driveshafts, front wheel bearings, and a Bilstein Sprintline kit. It's my choice to throw money at the problems, but it is a 17 year old car so I'd rather have some peace of mind. I guess it all comes down to budget and time at the end f the day. Also, I totally recomend Group A solid beam mounts, but not Group N front top mount bushes, unless you are not bothered about the ride 'quality'. Too harsh for me and I'll be going back to standard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smckeown 1 Posted January 29, 2007 Storm autos and jonnie205 (forum member) are in oxfordshire. As well a des-developments which are in Walsall (worth the trip). Sean Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bitchass 205 0 Posted January 29, 2007 ..........Also, I totally recomend Group A solid beam mounts, but not Group N front top mount bushes, unless you are not bothered about the ride 'quality'. Too harsh for me and I'll be going back to standard. Where did you buy your mounts from, i was looking at mine at the weekend and the nearside ones is still solid, ie it stay together when twisted, however the offside one came apart so i'm assuming its knackered. Also when you replaced them did you drop the whole beam off or support it on a couple of jacks? i don't want to have to relocate it again, that job is a bitch!! Cheers Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLPoomobile 958 Posted January 29, 2007 Where did you buy your mounts from, i was looking at mine at the weekend and the nearside ones is still solid, ie it stay together when twisted, however the offside one came apart so i'm assuming its knackered. Also when you replaced them did you drop the whole beam off or support it on a couple of jacks? i don't want to have to relocate it again, that job is a bitch!! Cheers Michael Got mine from Baker BM bushes on here You will need to remove the beam to do the job I'm afraid. Fitting the beam to the car is nothing compared to the ball ache of fitting the bushes though! It removing the old bushes that is the difficult bit. Plenty of people on here have done it without too much hassle, but in the interest of providing a balanced opinion, I better tell you that it took me and a mate something like 9 hours to remove the beam, remove the old bushes, ft the new ones, and refit the beam. Most of that time was spent getting the set of front mount bushes out (the back ones are a piece of piss). We hammered, chisseled, dug, scraped, and burned at the f***ers for hours! Apperently our struggle was not the norm though. Just telling you though as I assumed it would take about 4 hours after reading about it on here. Good job my mate was very understanding! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bitchass 205 0 Posted January 29, 2007 Got mine from Baker BM bushes on here You will need to remove the beam to do the job I'm afraid. Fitting the beam to the car is nothing compared to the ball ache of fitting the bushes though! It removing the old bushes that is the difficult bit. Plenty of people on here have done it without too much hassle, but in the interest of providing a balanced opinion, I better tell you that it took me and a mate something like 9 hours to remove the beam, remove the old bushes, ft the new ones, and refit the beam. Most of that time was spent getting the set of front mount bushes out (the back ones are a piece of piss). We hammered, chisseled, dug, scraped, and burned at the f***ers for hours! Apperently our struggle was not the norm though. Just telling you though as I assumed it would take about 4 hours after reading about it on here. Good job my mate was very understanding! 9 hours!!! was that just for the back? i did mine in 5 but then the rear mounts for the beam to go on were already off and the mounts on the beam coming off were ok. Who is the contact for the Baker bushes? Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLPoomobile 958 Posted January 29, 2007 9 hours!!! was that just for the back? i did mine in 5 but then the rear mounts for the beam to go on were already off and the mounts on the beam coming off were ok. Who is the contact for the Baker bushes? Cheers 9 Hours all in. But it was the first time I had removed the beam and my mate, although mechanically minded, is not a Pug man. On the beam you have the 2 rear sandwhich mounts, and then the front mounts which have a bush pushed in from either side, so 4 bushes in total at the front. The rear sandwhich mounts are easy, just unbolt them and pull them off, but the front bushes are a pain as they have ametal sleeve that corrodes and welds it's self to the mounting. Some people are lucky and get them out with no problem, but mine were well and truly welded in and it was the mother of all battles to get them out. We destroyed numerous old tools (screwdrivers and punches, that sort of thing), I smashed my left hand with a mallet about 50 times so it was well bruised the following day, and my right wrist was in agony for about a week, kind of like a sprain, as a result of the repeated shocks going through the bone as I smashed away with the mallet See here for mounts --->Baker BM and don't forget your member discount. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob_the_Sparky 9 Posted January 29, 2007 Back onto topic... I'd drive the car, go to some meets and get a few passanger rides before starting to spend money. I am generally of the "if it ain't bust don't fix it" camp but have replaced almost every part of the suspension on my good car! I also don't think there is one best solution, depends on what you want out of the car. What is best of a 100% track car isn't going to be what you want on a road car. There are plenty of people on here with modified cars and some discussion with teh right people and ideally a few test runs is the way to go. Be interesting what you think about the handling, I've got both 309 and 205 GTis and the differences are greater than you might think. I wouldn't by choice sell either, 205 is more fun, 309 easier to drive (IMHO). Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miles 331 1 Cars Posted January 29, 2007 The other item no one has talked about is the brakes, brake pipes and brake line's, Worth checking these as if the rear main brake pipe/s are corroded the tank needs to be droped to replace them, But until you get the car it's a very hard question to anser, Just get it jacked up and have a good look at it, Also Water and the Oil Breather pipes are another area. I'm also just on the edge of the New Forest/Ringwood area Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_gti 0 Posted January 29, 2007 Rob>> I had both a ph1 and ph2 309, the ph1 was awesome, the only car that I have enjoyed as much was my 182 cup. The ph2 I think was a bad example or was at least setup differently, either way it wasn't nearly as good. The 205 feels similar yet different, unfortunately test drives don't reveal the full character but the car certainly seems decent minus some dodgy tyres which didn't help! Suspension is pretty much my number one item to sort out. Mechanically the car I looked at seemed fine, had a good old nose and the seller seems very honest, bodywork (paintwise) isn't perfect but a respray will easily cure. Going to price up various options tomorrow before deciding 100% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
