Do You Have, Or Are You Considering Hids?

[GLPoomobile 958]

MODs - sorry if this is in the wrong section. Put it here as I thought it was quite an important technical reference, but maybe Gen Car Chat would have been better?

 

Watch this Auto Express video about the problems with HID retro fit kits....

 

Auto Express

[welshpug 1,657]

renault megane light have always been crap hmmmmm, bugger

[Ahl 4]

Thats interesting, but does it mean that if the light pattern is correct, then they are technically legal?

[Alastairh 47]

Yeah read about this in the mag the other night

[GLPoomobile 958]

Thats interesting, but does it mean that if the light pattern is correct, then they are technically legal?

 

Dunno, but putting legalities to one side, I'd be more concerned about the dazzling affects. In other words I'd happily have a set if they did not dazzle other drivers, even if they were not stricly legal (as long as they weren't easily detectable by plod and liable to end up in a fine).

 

But is it a function of the bulb/kit design or the lens and reflector in the 205 headlights that would dictate how dazzling they are?

[welshpug 1,657]

what we need is for those already running HID's to report back on how the beam performs, and wether they passed the MOT.

 

one thing that stood out through was the blue tint on the video they used, wouldnt the coloring of the bulb distort the light source more than the whiter light?

[Ahl 4]

one thing that stood out through was the blue tint on the video they used, wouldnt the coloring of the bulb distort the light source more than the whiter light?

I thought that, that the blue light looked a bit dodgy. You know what journalists are like though, anything to make a story a bit more sensationalist.

 

Im interested to see what aftermarket HID's are like after tweaking the little screws on the base of the bulb holder. Perhaps you can get a decent beam pattern, just with a bit of effort.

[Paintguy 0]

Thats interesting, but does it mean that if the light pattern is correct, then they are technically legal?

It seems to be a bit of a grey area at the minute. All HID's are technically illegal in the UK, but because they are type approved in Europe, it seems we turn a blind eye to them (excuse the pun!) on new vehicles. It seems retro-fit HID's are definately illegal, unless the whole unit (headlamp) is replaced by one specifically designed for HID.

 

 

Here's a quote I pinched from another forum. It's a reply to an MOT tester who enquired about the legalities of the situation:

 

------------------FACT SHEET--------------

December 2006

 

Aftermarket HID headlamps

 

 

In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

 

The following is the legal rationale:

 

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.

Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

 

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

 

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

 

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

 

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

 

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

 

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

 

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

 

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

 

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

 

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

 

 

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

 

Transport Technology and Standards 6

Department for Transport

Zone 2/04

Great Minster House

76 Marsham Street Telephone: 020 7944 2078

London Fax: 020 7944 2196

SW1P 4DR Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk

[les3002 0]

the kit on my car passed the mot ok and the tester knew what the bulbs were and said the beam pattern was fine, also i dont remember ever being flashed by anyone either.

[welshpug 1,657]

what car was that?

 

i find it odd that HID units arent located with the beam in the same place as a std halogen bulb if thats what people are saying.

[les3002 0]

its on my cav mate, same h4 halogen headlight fitment as the pugs though.

 

and the bulb does just replace the standard one, i think what they are saying is the light isnt dispersed the same as with a halogen bulb.

[pugrallye 0]

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

 

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

 

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

 

Okay.... aftermarket kits are illegal for one:

All factory fits also have self levelling beams and headlamp washers fitted as dirt tends to refract the light much more on HID's than with halogens, obviously when your getting blinded down the road, the other bloke hasnt used his windscreen washers. This is also why on the MOT testers beam pattern machine it showed up fuzzy, obviously the inner or outer of the lens was dirty or damaged.

 

Also....... You cannot use glass lenses on headlamps when running on HID's. GLass gets chipped and damaged,bending beam about and making oncoming drivers get blinded. super dooper polycarbonate doesnt have this problem it is strong elasticy stuff (which new headlamps are constructed of...also they dont shatter and impale in your leg when you get hit by a car)

 

HID's burn hotter than normal halogens, so the chances of melting your reflectors are greater, causing fire.

Edited April 4, 2007 by pugrallye

[Dream Weaver 2]

HID's don't burn hotter than halogen AFAIK, they also use less power when they are "running" than halogen lights.

 

I have a kit fitted to mine, although I haven't tried them out yet as I rarely venture out in the car unless its hot, dry and sunny

[GLPoomobile 958]

Okay.... aftermarket kits are illegal for one:

All factory fits also have self levelling beams and headlamp washers fitted as dirt tends to refract the light much more on HID's than with halogens, obviously when your getting blinded down the road, the other bloke hasnt used his windscreen washers. This is also why on the MOT testers beam pattern machine it showed up fuzzy, obviously the inner or outer of the lens was dirty or damaged.

 

Also....... You cannot use glass lenses on headlamps when running on HID's. GLass gets chipped and damaged,bending beam about and making oncoming drivers get blinded. super dooper polycarbonate doesnt have this problem it is strong elasticy stuff (which new headlamps are constructed of...also they dont shatter and impale in your leg when you get hit by a car)

 

HID's burn hotter than normal halogens, so the chances of melting your reflectors are greater, causing fire.

 

 

It isn't actually illegal to retrofit HIDs (at the moment). The comments about self levelling and washers only refer to cars fitted with HIDs from the production line.

 

I'd love a set of HIDs but it would be a very selfish decision as I'm very conscious of the fact that they can and do dazzle other drivers. I often find it hard to focus at night if a car with particularly bright headlights approaches (I think I have photo sensative eyes ) and I can only imagine it would be much worse with an aftermarket set on a car such as the 205.

 

I watched a video recently of some Fiat Coupes driving up and down a road and one of them had HIDs fitted. The light was glaring all over the place. And they are supposed to be better as they have projector headlamps as standard.

[pugrallye 0]

It isn't actually illegal to retrofit HIDs (at the moment). The comments about self levelling and washers only refer to cars fitted with HIDs from the production line.

true, but that one in the video clearly was, not in the fitting sense but MOT failure all the same, and if that wasnt a fixed scenario and someones car undergoing an MOT, for all anyone knows he could have been driving around like that for 11 months and 29 days previous, completely unawares. i just feel that the aftermarket kits need more regulation than they have at present, and should be brought into line with the rulings car manufacturers have to abide by, and the amount of bs they make people like us trawl though understnading the ins and out of the stupidly expensive control modules and starters.

Personally I have never felt it necessary to have HIDs fitted to any of my cars, decent set of headlamp reflectors and lenses have always been ample for me (except in a mk 1 golf as they were just pants)

Edited April 5, 2007 by pugrallye