DamirGTI 342 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Hi! I have found one badly rusted liner today when i dismantle my engine block : http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture075.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture076.jpg is this dangerous ? will it seal properly on refitting or i have to buy another set ? thanks ! edit; image sizes, max 120k please. Edited January 17, 2007 by pugtorque Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) You could check by fiting the liners and seals clamping them down using lenghts of 15mm copper tube and washers with the head bolts. Fill the block with water and check for leaks underneath. The (edit:- NEW) seals can be reused as they're only rubber. My girfriends 106 had a rusty liner like that at the bottom seal and when I put it together I checked if it was leaking, It was but only about a drip a minute. I used radweld to make a seal as sedement would soon seal it anyway. Seemed to work. I didn't get any mayo oil. Edited January 18, 2007 by ALEX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,657 Posted January 18, 2007 as long as the sealing surface and bore is good it'll be fine, use new seals as they're only a few pennies, not worth the risk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony 1,003 Posted January 18, 2007 The seals can be reused as they're only rubber. Do not reuse liner seals, as there is a good chance they won't reseal properly (hence all the dire warnings about not disturbing the liners when removing the head) and then it's a major pain in the a**e when you find it leaks and you've built the engine and it's installed in the car. That liner really doesn't look too clever and looks from the picture like the sealing surface has been badly eaten into - what does the surface on the block look like, as I've seen them corroded as well now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) as long as the sealing surface and bore is good it'll be fine, use new seals as they're only a few pennies, not worth the risk. Do not reuse liner seals, as there is a good chance they won't reseal properly (hence all the dire warnings about not disturbing the liners when removing the head) and then it's a major pain in the a**e when you find it leaks and you've built the engine and it's installed in the car. That liner really doesn't look too clever and looks from the picture like the sealing surface has been badly eaten into - what does the surface on the block look like, as I've seen them corroded as well now... I ment reuse the new seals after doing the test I mentioned. Edited January 18, 2007 by ALEX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted January 18, 2007 hi ! the reason i do this job is because i have broken my head bolt deep inside a block ant can't get it out ... so i scrap the block and use another one and fit everithing from this old block to that spear one.. all parts on refitinl will be new bearings , piston rings , gaskets and of course liner seals pics : http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture088.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture068.jpg this is old block .. that rusty liner is from 1-st cylinder = pic 088 oh and one more thing - must i get crakshaft machined when i fit it from this to another block ? some pics of big end bearings : http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture084.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture082.jpg cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagonda 42 Posted January 18, 2007 Have just done similar job on my car, fortunately my liners were hardly corroded at all in that area. Looks like yours has been run without antifreeze, or a poor quality one with little anticorrosion content. I had to replace one of my liners as I'd left it too long after gasket failure, & water remaining in the bores had rusted the surface of one enough to mean blow-by under compression. The new liner was about £30, that was from Matt at QEP, so if cash isn't too tight, new liners aren't that expensive, although mail costs may be excessive due to their weight. Obviously you also benefit from unworn bores. On the other hand, looking at your photos, I'd say there is a fair chance water would leak past one of your liners, if not both, even with new liner "O" rings. That said there's no reason why a light coat of silicon sealant couldn't be used, it's hardly a tough environment and pressure in the water system is relatively low. One thing you would need to be careful of is not to use too much. Any excess that became detached could block tubes in the radiator, which wouldn't be helpful! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beastie 1 Posted January 18, 2007 I ment reuse the new seals after doing the test I mentioned. Isn't the test you mentioned only going to mean anything if it is performed at working temperature and with the liner trough sealed so that it can be pumped up to working pressure? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted January 18, 2007 Isn't the test you mentioned only going to mean anything if it is performed at working temperature and with the liner trough sealed so that it can be pumped up to working pressure? I see what your getting at, and I'll agree the test wont be perfect, but its better than nothing. Anyway you could argue, as the pressure increases so would the temprature, expanding the liners to give a tighter fit in the block and possibly a better seal. £30 though sounds cheap enough to change the liner. I'd buy a set at that price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted January 18, 2007 so it's ok to put silicon araund that liner "O" ring ? what kind of silicon any brand high temp. resistent or something special ? im litle short budget on this so my plane is just to do bearings , gaskets and piston rings because i was first wanted just to fit another reconditioned head but that job ended with one head bolt broken (very badly rusted and broken deep inside the block whit no possible way to get him out ... ) and removed engine out of a car and stripped Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted January 18, 2007 £30 though sounds cheap enough to change the liner. I'd buy a set at that price. is that pirce for one liner toheather with piston or just a liner ? arn't they supplied as matched sets piston and liner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted January 18, 2007 You can fit old pistons with new liners provinding you fit new rings. I imagine at that price it's just the liner. I bought a full set Pistons and liners for something over £200. Cant remember the exact price Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagonda 42 Posted January 19, 2007 Yes, that is per liner; actually on checking QEP's price list, they're £29.23 + VAT. My car has done 160,000 miles yet the pistons showed little sign of wear. All the liner bores had a noticeable wear ridge, but still within tolerance, hence I just renewed the rings; did of course have the liners honed. Must say that as honing cost £10 per bore I might have gone for all new liners anyway. Too late now, & it's all running fine. Regarding using silicone sealant, I don't think you'd need anything particularly specific, so long as it's a good quality automotive type. The only complication I could see would be what effect might occur if the sealant hardened off before the head was installed & tightened. Might be better to use Hylomar, which is more messy to use but only hardens to a degree. I'm thinking here that silicone sealant sets fairly quickly, probably before you've had time to bolt the head down. Ordinary silicone sealant might squeeze out & shear, whereas blue Hylomar would just adapt to the environment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted January 19, 2007 ok. thanks a lot to everyone for advices cheers ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PumaRacing 2 Posted January 19, 2007 Hi! I have found one badly rusted liner today when i dismantle my engine block : http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture075.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c151/Pie.../Picture076.jpg is this dangerous ? will it seal properly on refitting or i have to buy another set ? thanks ! edit; image sizes, max 120k please. That's not unusual corrosion. What I do with those is put the liner in the lathe and polish the corner of the flange with abrasive paper to remove any high spots. The rubber sealing ring will seal ok. You can put a smear of silicon sealant on too if you like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted January 19, 2007 I will cross my fingers and give it a try too do as you say hope it will be good just with a new "o"ring and sealent around ... allthou this liner looks very bad too me ... thanks man ! cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) honing cost £10 per bore At that price it must include fitting a new set of rings aswell I hope! (price of rings not included) Edited January 22, 2007 by ALEX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagonda 42 Posted January 23, 2007 No, that was just the honing, plus there was VAT on top! To be fair I think they have to set them up in a jig replicating the precise pressures they're under once they're installed, as they do change shape. If you read Puma Racings' guide, they do change shape once removed from the block! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted January 24, 2007 I'm shocked at that price my local engineering shop charge half that. You can buy a honing tool for less than £30 to do it your self. So paying £40+vat is stupid . The whole job (4 liners) takes less than 10mins I dont know what your on about with this replicating the precise pressures nonsense, as I can't see what this has to do with Honing, The sole purpose of honing is to remove the glaze from the liner so the new rings can bed in. There is an optimal angle for for tha honing pattern but thats all there is to it really. If your really tight you can even use a 30 pence piece of emry cloth to hone the liners. Probbably just as effective as a £40+ vat job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lagonda 42 Posted January 24, 2007 Hmm, as you say, assuming honing just follows the existing wear there seems little point setting everything up like that. QEP's other prices seemed pretty fair otherwise so didn't query, perhaps I should have done. I did have a go with some emery but wasn't satisfied that the finish achieved would do much to bed the rings in. Preferable to get a proper job done and know it's right bearing in mind the time & trouble to dismantle if my effort proved ineffective, after all I've saved plenty by doing most of the work myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickie 3 Posted May 13, 2007 here are my liners, whats the best way to stop them rusting in the future ? i was thinking of lacquer on the outside of them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matty_gti 20 Posted May 13, 2007 I got to sets of liners honed at my machine shop for £35, it sounded fair to me..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickie 3 Posted May 14, 2007 any ideas ? or should it be ok be using distilled water, or is it deionized water, or i could make a new topic because i dont think its been covered haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted May 14, 2007 I wouldn't lacquer them, risks of a chunk of lacquer breaking off & blocking a waterway imo. Just clean the rust thats built up on them off & use a decent mix of anti-freeze & water thats changed every couple of years max. I've stripped engines that have done over 130k but have been looked after because the outside of the liners was spotless compared to those. Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DamirGTI 342 Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) Hi ! Apart from regular replacement maybe distilled water and better quality antifreeze is solution for that allthou i never use distilled water , and tap water in my cuontry is hard containing lots of scale so i think that it can't be good for longer period of use cheers Damir Edited May 14, 2007 by DamirGTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
