kman1600 0 Posted January 16, 2007 Hi, I know this has been touched upon many times, based on the search I just did but there still seems to some confusion (at least in my head ) as to exactly what ratios are in this thing? I'm thinking that most likely they are the same as the S16 and therefore the same as the 405 Mi16 but is there anyone out there who knows for sure? Thanks Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray205S16 Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Hi, I know this has been touched upon many times, based on the search I just did but there still seems to some confusion (at least in my head ) as to exactly what ratios are in this thing? I'm thinking that most likely they are the same as the S16 and therefore the same as the 405 Mi16 but is there anyone out there who knows for sure? Thanks Tim The ratios of an 306S16 gearbox are not the same as from the 405 2L MI16! That is what i can remember of an autoguide which i have at home. I'm at work now, so i can look it up for you, tonight, when i'm at home. grtz, Raymond Edited January 16, 2007 by Ray205S16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whizzer71 0 Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Yep thats what I was told,I had a box from the ZX16V in my 205 before I fitted the six speed,It was horribly wrong just revved too much in every gear and didnt make the best use of the Gti6 engines torquey characteristics !,only thing is Im now fed up with having no R/h lock ! Ive manged to get my hands on a Xsara VTS 5 spd box,Have stripped it down and worked out the ratios etc will post them later,hoping to build a custom box utilising a 1.6 Fd, some of the Xsara ratios and some 1.6 / 1.9 ratios from another couple of boxes which I have yet to strip,hopefully aim to end up with something really good ! Edited January 16, 2007 by whizzer71 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kman1600 0 Posted January 16, 2007 Hi, According to this link: http://www.hi-speed.dk/Gear%20Ratios%201.0.xls the S16 has the same ratios as the 405 mi16 1.9L. What I'm hoping here is that the ZX box that I have has the low 4.429:1 final drive and the high first. If it does then I can simply mix in the 3rd, 4th & 5th from a "standard" GTI box, either 1.6 or 1.9 and get myself a nice close ratio track box. I've done this once before with a 405 Mi16 1.9L box and a 1.6GTI box and just need to know what FD and 1st is in the ZX box before I go about trying to source the rest of the gears. Thanks Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted January 16, 2007 According to the UK Haynes manual for the ZX they have a different set of ratio's to the 405 Mi16. See attached file. Quite a lot longer & imo not ideally suited to a 16v engine but not as long as a 1.9 box, although theres not much in it. Graham. ZX_Ratios.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kman1600 0 Posted January 16, 2007 Hi, Thanks for that, looks convincing. OK first gear is too low and the final drive is too high, I need to locate the FD from an MI16 box as well as the first gear from either a 1.9GTI or and Mi16 box to make up a good close ratio box. Can BE1 Gears be used in a BE3 gearbox? I still have my previous hybride box, it has the right ratios in it but it's a BE1, can I reuse the FD or the first gear? Thanks again Tim P.S. Sorry I started this thread in the wrong place, should have been in the modified section Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisaGTi16v 1 Posted January 16, 2007 Whizzer it would be handy if you could post those VTS ones as I need a replacement box for my Xsara and cannot find the ratios anywhere. Working them out in gearcalc based on rough mph from my speedo, it looks similar to a 1.9 205 box, ie high 1st and 7200 in 5th would be 141 on my lower profile tyres which is about right. I had a zx 16v before and it indicated 137 not quite on the limiter so ~6500, probably too high geared really, depends what you want to use the car for Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whizzer71 0 Posted January 16, 2007 Right guys,Xsara Vts gearbox internals as follows : 1st 13/38 2.92 2nd 23/43 1.86 3rd 25/32 1.28 4th 41/39 .95 5th 47/35 .74 FD 14/62 4.42 Hope this may be of use ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,657 Posted January 16, 2007 i'll see if I can work out what ratios the ZX has, as the haynes manual only lists typical ratios not specific ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kman1600 0 Posted January 16, 2007 Hi, If the ZX 2.0L 16V ratios are the same as these I'm landed, as that's the FD and 1st gear that I need!!!!! Fingers crossed Thanks Tim Right guys,Xsara Vts gearbox internals as follows : 1st 13/38 2.92 2nd 23/43 1.86 3rd 25/32 1.28 4th 41/39 .95 5th 47/35 .74 FD 14/62 4.42 Hope this may be of use ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars Posted January 17, 2007 Wahey the Xsara VTS has the Mi16 ratios. That'll be why it beats the GTI6 off the line. The ZX ratios are wierd. The individual gears are same/similar to the Mi16x4 box but with a 3.7 FD instead of the 4.4 on the Mi16x4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whizzer71 0 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) "Wahey the Xsara VTS has the Mi16 ratios. That'll be why it beats the GTI6 off the line." Not sure about that?,If you look on Mckeowns Spreadsheet/Gearbox calculator they appear to be different Edited January 17, 2007 by whizzer71 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisaGTi16v 1 Posted January 17, 2007 hmm are you certain those ratios are right for the VTS. Using Gearcalc I get the following mph in the gears based on measuring my 195/45/15 tyres at 21" (top to bottom taking into account tyre squish), 35/55/80/107/138 of course I have the problem that my speedo overreads as the car should have 55's on it not 45 but that will only be a few mph around 60 and im sure it shows a lot more than that when I shift to 3rd. It also feels like it has a much longer 1st gear than 35mph as my Visa is limited to that and thats way low. I thought the VTS was more like the 1.9 205 box ie 3.688FD, 2.923, 1.85, 1.36, 1.069, 0.865 as that gives me with my wheels speeds of 42/66/90/114/141 which is more like what im seeing. Then again no, I certainly dont see 95 or more in 3rd which is what I would with my smaller tyres and speedo over read so maybe 80mph in 3rd that you worked out is right but the 1st and 2nd just seem too low rambling now heh, will ponder over this more Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisaGTi16v 1 Posted January 17, 2007 Think I will take a detour back at lunch and open my Xsara up ahem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whizzer71 0 Posted January 17, 2007 My mate has one of these boxes in his Gti6 powered 205,he gets 40 1st,60 2nd,nearly 90 in 3rd,120ish 4th and tops out off the clock in 5th (rev limiter),so 150 ish I Guess being as 205 speedos only read 140. I assume that the box I have IS a Xsara Vts one,Thats what I was told by Dixon the guy I got it from, it came off an XU10J4RS lump so it must be he would have any reason to tell me otherwise. As you can see I counted the teeth and I have checked the sums a couple of times unless you come up with different figures to me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisaGTi16v 1 Posted January 17, 2007 Yep you are right heh. Not that I was doubting your ability to count, more than it may not have had an original box. Using a handy peice of private road near here (cough), I hit 63 at 7200 in 2nd and 91 in 3rd. My Xsara should have 55 profile but I have 45 and plus speedos always over read so those 63+91 do sound awfully like the 55+80 I calculated above. Now I have thought about it and tested they do feel just like the Mi16 ratios. Thats the box I had in my Visa originally, 1st and 2nd are low then a bigger gap to 3rd. I have since replaced that with a 1.6 205 box which has a higher 2nd which is better but you notice the gap from 1st to 2nd. This low 2nd in the VTS probably explains why the official 0-60 time is so bad as it needs 3rd gear for a fair bit where as owners on a the 306 forum are on about theres do over 60 easily in 2nd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
