[engine_work] Type-r-io

[d-9 0]

Sandy is practically Mr Midrange, he's been championing tuned 8v's over 16v's for 106s for years, so I imagine that's crossed his mind. He'll answer this better when hes online, but iirc he said that the reason he chose the 2.2atr lump is for the torque, and the ITB's should help that.

[Rippthrough 98]

Sandy is practically Mr Midrange, he's been championing tuned 8v's over 16v's for 106s for years, so I imagine that's crossed his mind. He'll answer this better when hes online, but iirc he said that the reason he chose the 2.2atr lump is for the torque, and the ITB's should help that.

 

 

Mainly for the noise of the 8v on throttle bodies if you ask me

[d-9 0]

I must confess the only reason i'd consider bodies is for the sound!

[Sandy 191]

K24 would be very impressive, as long as it is not too tall to fit.

 

Don't know how much truth there is in it, but I heard that the K20A is lighter than the old B18A from the DC2 Teg Type R. If true, that would make it lighter still than the H22 you have used. And since (in the Civic at least) it sits further back and at an angle (like the Mi16), it would give even better weight distribution.

 

Kind of a moot point though, given that I don;t know how much heavier a K24 is compared to a K20!!

 

 

This is a fantastic engine and a fantastic project and I personally think on track it will be an absolute weapon. However, according to the other thread running in this section at the moment, a lot of people will argue it will be useless on track and a lot of tuned 8v's will be comming past with their nice "mid range" torque . Would you have an opposing argument for this sandy??? (I agree with the charachteristics of this engine and why you are using it 100%, I need no convincing yet other on here do).

 

Maxi

Maxi, I nearly wet myself, i'm presumng your tongue has nearly peirced your cheek? Fortunately I am not bound by the need to prove myself on track, in fact if i'm honest, driving at 100mph+ at Combe last year was not a comfortable experience for me, I loved the corners and i'll drive to grim death at lower speeds, but I really don't want to go fast enough to challenge the track heroes; just have some fun in my own space.

If there was an 8v honda engine in this league, I would have it. I prefer the noise and response (punch if you like), of an 8v generally and i'm gathering parts for a 1.8 8v to go in the 205 Rallye i've just acquired, but sadly cost might prohibit TB's on that one for the time being.

I've weighed Neil's K20 and it's 10kg lighter than the H22, confirning the Honda claims of the same. The K24 however, has a heftier crank and balancer shafts, no doubt a bigger flywheel too, so probably closes the gap. The height shouldn't be an issue, i've got muchos air over the H22 as it sits. The K20/24 is about 10mm shorter IIRC, and the 6 speed box is the same length amazingly. The K24 has the simplified i-VTEC valvetrain which doesn't have exhaust cam VTEC and basically switches profiles at 1800rpm or so, so is very much a "normal" variable inlet cam 16v, rather than the traditional chalk and cheese VTEC H22.

Now what I would like to do, is find a use for the S2000 diff and shafts I still have, maybe S2000 box, some tunnelage, K24 engine and a dollop of ingenuity on another 309 shell? Next year perhaps

[Batfink 201]

good to here what the little yellow beastette has planned for it

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Maxi, I nearly wet myself, i'm presumng your tongue has nearly peirced your cheek? Fortunately I am not bound by the need to prove myself on track, in fact if i'm honest, driving at 100mph+ at Combe last year was not a comfortable experience for me, I loved the corners and i'll drive to grim death at lower speeds, but I really don't want to go fast enough to challenge the track heroes; just have some fun in my own space.

If there was an 8v honda engine in this league, I would have it. I prefer the noise and response (punch if you like), of an 8v generally and i'm gathering parts for a 1.8 8v to go in the 205 Rallye i've just acquired, but sadly cost might prohibit TB's on that one for the time being.

I've weighed Neil's K20 and it's 10kg lighter than the H22, confirning the Honda claims of the same. The K24 however, has a heftier crank and balancer shafts, no doubt a bigger flywheel too, so probably closes the gap. The height shouldn't be an issue, i've got muchos air over the H22 as it sits. The K20/24 is about 10mm shorter IIRC, and the 6 speed box is the same length amazingly. The K24 has the simplified i-VTEC valvetrain which doesn't have exhaust cam VTEC and basically switches profiles at 1800rpm or so, so is very much a "normal" variable inlet cam 16v, rather than the traditional chalk and cheese VTEC H22.

Now what I would like to do, is find a use for the S2000 diff and shafts I still have, maybe S2000 box, some tunnelage, K24 engine and a dollop of ingenuity on another 309 shell? Next year perhaps

 

 

Forgive me if im being very dumb here but why did you choose a Vtec engine if this is the way you like to drive? Am I missing something?

 

Maxi

[smckeown 1]

in fact if i'm honest, driving at 100mph+ at Combe last year was not a comfortable experience for me, I loved the corners and i'll drive to grim death at lower speeds, but I really don't want to go fast enough to challenge the track heroes; just have some fun in my own space.

 

I'm the same. I'm s*it scared of really high speeds, that's why I prefer twisty tracks like anglesey, brands etc. But for some reason i love goodwood also, but you need a seriously fast car to get good speeds on the longest straight there. I used to hit the limiter on the old mi16 engine with the 1.9/mi FD, and that was fast enough for me

 

Some people have balls of steal, good luck to them! Another reason i'll try sprinting rather than hilclimbing; i've seen some footage of hilclimbs that literally make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up

[Powers 13]

Slightly off topic but the k20a block doesn't mate with a f20c box. Nice idea though. Also I would use a K20a head on a K24 block, with the K20a oil pump if I was allowed/decided to be 2400cc.

[Sandy 191]

The k20 might not bolt straight onto the S2000 box, but hopefully it's clear from the content of this thread that i'm not inclined to be defeated by that sort of thing, if I believe it's worth resolving.

Forgive me if im being very dumb here but why did you choose a Vtec engine if this is the way you like to drive? Am I missing something?

 

Maxi

You don't have to live on the dangerous side of a 100mph to enjoy or exploit a VTEC engine? High speeds of that kind don't interest me, but power delivery, engine character, engine noise and efficiency do; alot.

[Sandy 191]

Right, update time.

 

Very nearly got it running last weekend, but for a slight coolant leak from the water distribution-thermostat housing pipe joint. Also haven't quite fitted the battery in the boot. Had another wrangle with the o-ring that's leaking this evening and it's not as bad, but still leaking slighty. I'm hoping it might make up good with some heat and pressure, we'll see.

 

Need to extend the injetor rail mounts for longer injectors in the morning and finish the battery install, then it's ready to roll!

[Sandy 191]

Got it running this evening, it's quite loud! I had to quit to avoid waking my lad up and it was pishing down as well, which makes setting up the crank angle and bodies a bit unpleasant. The water leak doesn't seem to have gone either. Have to take the bodies off again in the morning and completely remove/clean/refit the water distribution pipe.

[Sandy 191]

I finally overcame a run of bad luck this morning and the Trio came to life with the new 2.2 Honda engine. I bought an old DTA cheaply, which can only be mapped in DOS, so it was fun and games getting that all working, but eventually Neil and I were able to get some road mapping down and have a bit of fun.

The BTCC bodies don't close down very well, so i've had to settle for a 1500rpm idle for the time being, but it's a small price to pay. It's blindingly quick and you really have to hang on to the steering in 2/3/4th in the dry! The changeover onto VTEC is comedy and it sort of goes from quick to silly in the process. So far i've been gingerly adding advance and it keeps going quicker, but i'll leave it as it is now until i can get in the rollers later this week and properly map it.

The handling is very nice, I haven't explored it much today, but the turn in and balance seems to be intact as before, so i'm happy. Maybe needs bigger brakes. (266mm)

The Video below was all I could manage on my own, it's from about 3k in second..onto VTEC (5k)... limiter (7.8k)...into 3rd... limiter.

 

http://temp.noboost.com/sandy/TypeRio.wmv (right click save as)

 

Pics:

http://noboost.com/temp/sandy/TrioFin1.jpg

http://noboost.com/temp/sandy/TrioFin2.jpg

http://noboost.com/temp/sandy/TrioFin3.jpg

 

Am I happy!

[jonnie205 1]

fair play you should be pruod of yourself fot that, a far from easy conversion i would imagine

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

well done, awesome progress just getting it running. Id of give up trying to do anything in dos!! lol.

are you implying you want 266 brakes or that it has them and you want bigger? I have some 266 for sale thats all.

[t16ryan 1]

lovely glove box in the video

nice the car sounds good, hope the rolling road setup goes well

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Pic's look good & the noise from the video sounds ace for such a small clip.

 

Look forward to seeing more when its had some proper mapping time.

 

Graham.

[taylorspug 7]

Weapon! Good work and congratulations on getting it done.

[Alastairh 47]

Well done that man.

 

What a sleeper!

[BERTMAN 40 1 Cars]

whao, sweet

[Sandy 191]

Richie- I've got 266mm! Cheers anyway.

 

Thanks guys, it's been a struggle.

[inferno 1]

Evil! nice one!

[pugboyracer 3]

That is awesome! Major, major respect for that.

 

My hat goes off to you sir!

[lyncho23 3]

very nice, that looks like an amazing conversion!

[smckeown 1]

sweet as a nut..top effort. Do you have any competition plans for it ? or just an exercise in engineering ?

 

Laughing my head off at the external pics, man i hate the look of 309s

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

Good effort, looking forward to some more vids.