Safety Advice Regards Not Having Rear Brake Compensators

[rutlandguy 0]

Help,

 

I've just found out that I have no rear brake compensators fitted to the back of my 1.9 GTI at some point the brake pipes have been cut where the bulkhead meets the floor pan and a union has been fitted on both sides and joined to the copper brake pipes which then run under the floor pan via what I believe to be the factory route to the flexi connections which connects the pipes to the brake pipes on the rear beam. This copper brake pipe runs straight pass where the brake compensators should be in front of the fuel tank.

 

I'm guessing that without the compensators fitted I'm in danger of the rear of the car locking up under hard braking and potentially causing the car to spin. Please can someone confirm this and advise if there would be any other side effect.

 

The worrying thing is that I have covered 10K miles with without the compensators fitted. However I fitted new disks and pads 3K miles ago and the braking system is much improved now from what it was before so I feel it is now more likely that I could spin the car.

 

Questions:

 

Whats the risk should I be driving the car at all? Or is it ok and the likely hood of a spin is small?

 

What do I need (tool wise) to insert the compensators into the brake line? A pipe flaring tool has been mentioned following a search but Ive never done this sort of thing before so advice would be appreciated or should I just get a garage to do it.

 

I want to learn but don't want to bite off more than I can chew if you know mean.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Phil

[Daxed 7]

Never driven with that setup myself, but from previous threads quite a few guys are running without compensators and I have not seen any reported issues on road or track.

 

Have a play with the search button as this has been fairly extensively discussed.

 

Get the car to a private road or book yourself a track day and explore the braking characteristics

[hengti 2]

i think a few people run without the compensators (without any problems), but from what i've read, they also seem to be running an uprated front set-up - not sure if that affects the balance of the car meaning that it's not a problem for them to be running without compensators.

 

personally, i'd just take the car onto some wide common land (without anyone else around, obviously) and give it a few hard lock-up stops to see how it behaves. i realise that you might not want to do this though. if you do do it, beware that the brakes will fade after a few attempts.

 

it shouldn't be too difficult to retro fit compensators. personally, i'd get some new pipes made up - but it might be possible to cut the existing ones, get yourself some new unions and flare the ends of the pipe.

[Anthony 1,003]

With standard front brakes, running without compensators should mean the rears lock up quite easily - I've driven 205's with compensators that have failed "open" (ie like running no compensator) and they've been a handful under anything other than light braking!

 

Are you sure they've not hidden a compensator somewhere on the brakeline, or it's not using the 1.6 style compensator or a bias-valve?

 

With uprated fronts (GTi-6 or 307) you don't need compensators as the effective brake-bias is moved far enough forward that you don't need them - I've run GTi-6 fronts and compensatorless rears for plenty of miles, road and track, and all weather conditions without issue.

[jonah 1]

Yep as Anthony says, the standard setup with no compensators will lock the rears before the fronts. I have an adjustable rear bias valve fitted but it doesn't seem to work as it does exactly that, even with the valve adjusted to minimum. With uprated fronts, the rear is under-braked so much less likely to lock up.

 

IMO the likelyhood of a spin is small, but it depends how you drive. Locking up the rears in a straight line on a flat road doesn't cause a problem. If you lock them mid corner or on a badly cambered road then you will get oversteer, but that can be caught if you react fast. Drive smoothly and you'll be ok.

[Daxed 7]

Anthony,

 

Thanks for the explanation. The flipside of your comments........... Would the rear be 'under braked' if running GTI-6 at the front and std rears with compensator (1.6) fitted?

 

Guess i'm asking should i remove the compensator from my planned setup of GTI-6 fronts with std rears?

 

Cheers

[Richie-Van-GTi 74 2 Cars]

the rear wouldnt be under braked with a compensator and uprated fronts as the compensator allows the correct operating pressure for the standard rears, it actually doesnt do anything until the upper pressure limits are hit towards the rears.

AFAIK mine hasnt any on the rear either unless they are hidden somewhere and I was running standard front calipers with tarox discs and apex pads, never had an issue and it was driven hard. Currently rebuilding to s16 front spec though.

[Dream Weaver 2]

I run WITH compensators and mine locks the rear up when braking sharply, so I need tolook at that.

 

Providing you do your braking in a straight line, and progressively you should be OK.

[Edp 67 3 Cars]

Anthony,

 

Thanks for the explanation. The flipside of your comments........... Would the rear be 'under braked' if running GTI-6 at the front and std rears with compensator (1.6) fitted?

 

Guess i'm asking should i remove the compensator from my planned setup of GTI-6 fronts with std rears?

 

Cheers

 

 

This is what i'm doing on my new project but using a bias valve instead of a compensator. Read here

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...c=67005&hl=

[rutlandguy 0]

To conclude the general consensus of 205 people (both on and off the forum) is that a 1.9 with compensator less rear will lock the rears easily. This is also my experience under hard braking - hence the post in the first place.

 

I now have OEM pads and new ATE disks all round with new patterned compensators, mechanically free callipers and new brake fluid and the car is transformed braking wise, the standard brakes are now so good I can't understand why anyone would want to upgrade them and add extra unsprung weight.

 

So if you are reading this thread with a similar concern my advice would be to at the very least change the compensators and if funds allow overhaul the entire braking system like I did.

[Super Josh 4]

Guess i'm asking should i remove the compensator from my planned setup of GTI-6 fronts with std rears?

 

I'm running GTi6 front set up with standard rears and compensators and it's fine Also adds a little insurance that the rears won't lock up, should you be a bit heavy on the brakes.

 

 

 

 

Josh

Edited May 2, 2007 by Super Josh

[Alan_M 66 1 Cars]

As above, I run compensators with rear disc calipers and 4 pots up front with no `real´ issues.

 

Plans are afoot to remove them though!

[Super Josh 4]

Plans are afoot to remove them though!

 

 

Why's that then Alan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Josh

[Higgy 0]

I run GTi-6 fronts, standard master cylinder and no rear compensators (1.9 GTi).

 

The brake balance is fine, and it went through the MOT fine.

 

I have experienced the fronts locking up and the rears were fine.

 

(all the MOT problems I have had have been due to those compensators!, I was glad to ditch them).

 

Higgy.

[mos 1]

i'm in the process of removing the compensators from one of my cars as it caused the car to fail the mot

the setup will be 23mm master cylinder gti6 fonts and standard 1.9 rears

anyone see any problems with using the 23mm master cylinder with no compensator?