Gti6 Engine Tilting

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

after having to half remove the engine today to fit the gti6 manifold i forgot to fit when putting the engine in doh!

 

any way the manifold nearly clears the bulkhead and if i pull the lower mount out by about 1.5 cm it clears perfectly yay also i get a little more clearance on the master cylinder too.

 

just wondering if there will be any issues with doing this ? , i am hoping not as it is only marginal really . but it does the job.

i am going to re-drill the lower mounting hole ( marked x) and probably weld back over the other hole for strength . good idea???

 

 

 

jusyt noticed that i have posted twice the other one had no picture for some reason sorry any mods can delete the other one thanks

Edited December 8, 2006 by pugpete1108

[James_R 3]

Or lower the engine 10mm

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Or lower the engine 10mm

 

 

lot of hassle though tbh, when i can just drill two holes and do it that way .

but i did think of that first and lowered it on the jack to the end of the mounting bolts and it still fouled slightly

[welshpug 1,657]

lowering the engine 10mm is a doddle, all you need is 4 10mm thick M10 (IIRC) washers and pop them between the engine mounting bracket and the part that goes to the body, and also one on the gearbox mounting, much better than tilting the engine/

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

lowering the engine 10mm is a doddle, all you need is 4 10mm thick M10 (IIRC) washers and pop them between the engine mounting bracket and the part that goes to the body, and also one on the gearbox mounting, much better than tilting the engine/

 

yeah but as i said i have lowered the engine on these mounts as far as the bolts allow and it still wont clear the bulkhead i think the only choice may be to tilt it . what sort of probs will this cause anyone know? its only going to be about 10 deg tilt i should imagine.

 

i may give it another try at a later date i dunno yet

[welshpug 1,657]

odd that you have problems as many others have had the engine straight in, whats the condition of your bushes?

 

the engine sits at 30 degrees, so taking it to 40 is not advisable, as everyone knows its the demise of many a 16v converted 205 through oil starvation.

 

did you lower it on the gearbox mounting as well?

[jonnie205 1]

The gti6 rh engine mounts are not like the mi16 where you can stick washers in to lower engine, there is 2 vertical studs and then 2 bolts that go in on an angle. If you space the mount using washers then the bolts wont go in. The only way to lower is to make a new rh engine mount. Lowering the engine can bring other issues, gti6 sits lower in car than mi16 anythow and lowered any more can make sumps ground out very easily. A slight tilt is your best bet and will help on mc clearance. Make sure you use a group n lower mount and only tilt the min amount

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

The gti6 rh engine mounts are not like the mi16 where you can stick washers in to lower engine, there is 2 vertical studs and then 2 bolts that go in on an angle. If you space the mount using washers then the bolts wont go in. The only way to lower is to make a new rh engine mount. Lowering the engine can bring other issues, gti6 sits lower in car than mi16 anythow and lowered any more can make sumps ground out very easily. A slight tilt is your best bet and will help on mc clearance. Make sure you use a group n lower mount and only tilt the min amount

 

 

i have got a bbm solid lower mount, and an stiffer g/box mount the other is std but nearly brand new.

i think i will get the downpipe fitted then tilt it so it clears .

what is an advisable clearance around the exhaust to stop it knocking anyway?

 

odd that you have problems as many others have had the engine straight in, whats the condition of your bushes?

 

the engine sits at 30 degrees, so taking it to 40 is not advisable, as everyone knows its the demise of many a 16v converted 205 through oil starvation.

 

did you lower it on the gearbox mounting as well?

 

what engine are you reffering to? the xu10 i presume , as it looks like the engine is at a much bigger angle than 30 deg may have to measure it and see , so 40deg would be too much for any xu engine you think?

[welshpug 1,657]

nah, all XU's run at 30 degrees.

 

I was reffering to the fact that most GTi6 installations havent had to resort to adjusting any mounts, adjusting the exhaust manifold itself is a much better way of dealing with clearance issues and an adjusted manifold is cheaper than a dry bottom end...

[jackherer 543]

the engine sits at 30 degrees, so taking it to 40 is not advisable, as everyone knows its the demise of many a 16v converted 205 through oil starvation.

 

Tilting engines doesn't do anything to the oil pickup that driving up a shalllow incline would do anyway.

 

It does make the gearchange a bit ropey, especially into second. And I'm prepared to accept its not great for the driveshafts, although I've seen them last a fair while under those conditions....

 

Unless theres something I've missed ALL the 2.0 turbo swaps people have done into 205s are slightly tilted with no problems.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

lowering the engine 10mm is a doddle, all you need is 4 10mm thick M10 (IIRC) washers and pop them between the engine mounting bracket and the part that goes to the body, and also one on the gearbox mounting, much better than tilting the engine/

 

 

I dont mean to sound harsh but that post is obviously not written from experience and thats what causes chaos on this forum. People should ONLY post when they have actually done something. As jonnies said, the four fixings (two allen bolts and two studs with 16mm nuts) are ounted at different angles to each other so spacing them means they will no longer go through the mount and just will not work. I did lower my first GTi6 conversion slightly but mhad to modify the mount with a die grinder and it only ended up dropping the lump marginally.

 

The best method is to marginally angle the exhaust manifold by cutting a slot in it, bending it and then run the mig around it. Extending the mount that amount will not do any harm whatsoever.

 

Maxi

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

I dont mean to sound harsh but that post is obviously not written from experience and thats what causes chaos on this forum. People should ONLY post when they have actually done something. As jonnies said, the four fixings (two allen bolts and two studs with 16mm nuts) are ounted at different angles to each other so spacing them means they will no longer go through the mount and just will not work. I did lower my first GTi6 conversion slightly but mhad to modify the mount with a die grinder and it only ended up dropping the lump marginally.

 

The best method is to marginally angle the exhaust manifold by cutting a slot in it, bending it and then run the mig around it. Extending the mount that amount will not do any harm whatsoever.

 

Maxi

 

 

cheers maxi i didn't think lowering it would make that much difference anyhow , what end of the manifold did you cut ? the engine end of the collector end ?

people have told me tilting the engine is not good and others have said it doesn't make any difference , ideally i would like to chop the manifold and not mess with the mounts at all .

 

i does seem there are a lot of different opinions on here which causes a lot of confusion

[jackherer 543]

i does seem there are a lot of different opinions on here which causes a lot of confusion

 

just apply common sense so you can make your own mind up tilting isn't great but it works for lots of people, cutting the manifold is better but you need to be able to weld. If Matt @ QEP starts making angling plates for GTI6s then that will be the best option IMO. In the end its up to you...

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

cheers maxi i didn't think lowering it would make that much difference anyhow , what end of the manifold did you cut ? the engine end of the collector end ?

people have told me tilting the engine is not good and others have said it doesn't make any difference , ideally i would like to chop the manifold and not mess with the mounts at all .

 

i does seem there are a lot of different opinions on here which causes a lot of confusion

 

 

Theres just a lot of bloody idiots on here who repost things that are not accurate they have once read. You know wheat happens when you have chinese whispers, the original information gets misheard/interperatated and you end with something that is just complete and utter rubbish. As Kieran said, use common sense and go for whatever works within reason. If you are to extend the mount, DO NOT drill another hole as the metal will be too weak. Get another mount, cut it and weld it onto yours to extend the arm, will be much stronger.

 

As for the manifold modification, I cut mine the engine end, bent it and then re welded it back together. I then checked it for leaks (this was on my mi lump that made 216BHP).

 

This is a note to everyone- there are a VERY small minority that have actually completed most of the major mods that are carried out on 205's, I would take what people say with a pinch of salt unless you know for a fact they have done the task.

 

Maxi

[jackherer 543]

Theres just a lot of bloody idiots on here who repost things that are not accurate they have once read.

 

this is probably a good time to remind people of the forum guidelines on the subject:

when it comes to technical information and guideance, think twice before you hit

the "submit" button - make sure that information and knowledge you are about to

share is either first hand or verified fact. hear-say and deliberat missinformation

will not be tolerated. "guessing" (within reasonable limits) is allowed if it helps

finding an answer

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

cheers guys maybe i will just use my common sense then!

i was just under the impression people knew how things should be done and was after a bit of advice before i go and cock things up.

 

i am not about to go and pass judgement on other people i have never even met ,but i do understand that people use hearsay as a basis for their knowledge . i personally would not post about something i have never done myself.

one way or another i will get it sorted don't worry

[whizzer71 0]

Just cut the manifold at the end that bolts to the head,get it re welded and away you go !!!!,Mines in there on the original hangers the only mod is the grp N engine mount set.

I can only speak from experience and my car gets driven BLOODY HARD !,and it aint gone pop yet ! and it dont foul the master cylinder either ,As I said before Pete if you wanna come see it youre more than welcome m8 !

 

Tris

 

Edited December 9, 2006 by whizzer71

[sonofsam 5]

Unless theres something I've missed ALL the 2.0 turbo swaps people have done into 205s are slightly tilted with no problems.

 

Although I've not done this myself, and I've not seen any pictures, but have been told by a fellow forum member this works ( so is that hear-say?). He has fitted a smaller ( XS?) brake servo on his 2.0L T. conversion.

 

Is that statement breaking any rules?

[jackherer 543]

Is that statement breaking any rules?

 

yes, IMO it is!

 

although your disclaimers and prefixes make it uncertain enough to count as guessing I suppose

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Although I've not done this myself, and I've not seen any pictures, but have been told by a fellow forum member this works ( so is that hear-say?). He has fitted a smaller ( XS?) brake servo on his 2.0L T. conversion.

 

Is that statement breaking any rules?

 

 

Nope of course not as long as you MAKE IT CLEAR it is something you have heard and is not gospel as you are not posting it from 1st hand experience. State you have heard this but you have not tried it and could be worth an experiment.....

 

Maxi

[16v205 9]

Hi

 

I think what people forgot is the possibility of using the body of a top mount from a xu10 turbo engine. I found these mounts fit perfect on the block and allow you to use the same top arm as a mi16 engine. With all 4 bolt holes on a perfect flat you can space the studs with metal bar allowing a easy 10mm drop in engine height. Easy to do assuming you have a xu10 turbo engine mount knocking around.

 

It would be a right pain in the ass to try and drop the normal gti-6 top mount any distance because a youve mentioned the studs are in pairs at angles.

 

 

Rich

Edited December 10, 2006 by 16v205

[James_R 3]

Rich showed me this, and we've fitted one to Anthony's s16 engine I'll get a pic of it tomorrow, I'm intending to drop the engine 10mm so we can fit a maniflow job on to it

 

Give me a few hours.

[whizzer71 0]

I would be interested to see that,I used an ZX16V (S16) Top hanger and bracket havnt had any issues with clearance but Im always up for improvement,would it give sufficient clearance to allow fitment of the 406 4 pipe alloy master cylinder?,I cant remember the Id on these but I know its larger than the 205 master cylinder and works well with the Gti6 calipers.

I had one of these fitted to my last 205 (Mi converted) where clearance wasnt so much of an issue,gives a far better and more solid pedal.

 

Tris.