[project] 205 Mi32 Project - The Twin Mi16 Engined 205

[Gtiracer 0]

good work fella looks really good

 

 

whens the how-to guide coming then?

[adrian_gti 0]

awesome to see the finished video! now you need to slap some turbos on it

 

have you tried any 0 - 60 , 0- 100, 50 - 70, 50 - 100 times?

[GTI6BOY 29]

Finished video?

 

I thought that was the first test drive?

 

Still work in progress.......no

[sorrentoaddict 1]

Nikica - if Pug is your religion, and 205 is your god,

then you are, quite simply, a 205 Saint !

 

THIS IS HARDCORE.

 

a few technical points that spring to mind:

 

If you can (and someday you will need to I believe) install a data-logger in this beast, you will probably see that the revs of each individual engine do not climb exactly in the same rate on launching from standstill (due to difference in wheelspin F vs. R caused by the dynamic change of weight distribution F to R during acceleration from standstill).

Having the gear-shifting done simultaneously for both engines, actually prevents the car from having maximum "launch efficiency", at least in theory.

 

ideally, (talking science-fiction, that is...) one should go into electronically-controlled independant electro-hydraulic gearshifting.

 

As this is almost totally unrealistic, the real-life way of tackling this is usually experimenting with the tyre width, tyre type and tyre pressure combination F vs. R, with TOTALLY same gear ratios and tyre diameter F vs. R. This way you could make the wheelspin at least somewhat more "proportional", and gain valuable seconds in 1/4-mile runs.

 

Actually, with twin-engined cars, this phenomenon of slightly-out-of-sync-shiftpoints F vs. R engine, IS INDEED the biggest obstacle to attaining totally "mental" 1/4-mile runs.

The biggest problem is of course launch and 1st-to-2nd-gear

gearshift, when most of the wheelspin occurs.

 

This is also difficult to measure, and it is vital to have twin rev-counters of course, in order to be able to see where are you heading with this (after you get accustomed to the levels of performance which probably don't let the driver notice the instruments, really...)

 

I'd suggest experimenting a lot with different rim/tyre widths F vs. R, and also rideheight F vs. R should help a lot here, after you begin to learn how does indeed the car respond to these changes.

 

Anyway, what you have created is a totally wicked project - having sixteen big 34mm Inlet valves working for you, with all-wheel drive efficiency WITHOUT the power losses of the AWD drivetrains & diffs - must be a real "bring your brown trousers" experience!

 

good luck - hope to see this car in reality some day soon !

 

Cheers

 

Alex

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

hey Alex, good to see you back on the forum and especially commenting my little project .

 

 

you're correct, the front wheels now wheelspin easy (easier than with Mi16 FWD i'd say)

and you'll see that in the next video i've got to publish. however, Eibach springs i've got

on the rear (some daft 106 sport springs, see pictures) are pretty soft and the rear end

sags down and naturally the front end lifts (as it would normally) additionally aided by

the push from the rear.

 

we're pretty limited as to what we can do at the moment but a set of rear coilovers with

very hard and long springs (so we can have the rear adjustable, for instance, from 0 to

+50mm) should help the case a lot. ofcourse, together with a set of coilovers in the front

with short and hard springs, we could get it nearly spot on.

 

and also we're going to tune the rear engine a bit which should help balance the levels of

grip on launch . and if we manage to win some award money - some cut-slick tyres.

 

 

funny you mention electro-hydraulic shifting as we've been thinking about such system

for the future. it would be great to have an automatic & nearly sequential shifting system .

 

but you're wrong that the shifting should be done independently F and R. for instance,

one of the fastest drag cars in Croatia is a twin-VR6-engined mk2 Golf with LOADS of

Nitrous (and loads of melted pistons now, sadly) and they thought the car would perform

better with automatic gearboxes, keeping the engines in peak revs/power independently,

but in practice they've had to "hack" the gearbox sensors to shift at the same time as

they've had loads of problems with engines being our of sync.

 

 

oh, we should be in Belgrade on a drag race on 12/13th of May, so if you happen to be there...

 

 

thanks.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

i finally got some time to update the Phase 6 story!

 

 

this update shows a lot of development and testing:

 

 

and the car makes it's first public outing!

 

 

you can find the third part of the story (with 45 new pics) on THIS PAGE.

 

 

a daylight testing video and an in-car video coming soon!

 

 

thanks.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

and here are the two videos i mentioned .

 

 

 

205 Mi32 :: video #005 :: Daylight acceleration test runs

 

 

 

 

 

205 Mi32 :: video #006 :: In-car footage at higher speed

 

 

 

thanks.

[welshpug 1,657]

love it! I'd be grinning like a fool driving along in that through town

[IanG Dorset 0]

WOW!

[pugboyracer 3]

Staggering!

[Guest DAvie RG 16v]

WOW that is someproject to have undertook, and all i can say is thumbs up to the man,got himself a weapon their!!!

 

Just needs a couple of turbos strapped to it and your laughin LOL

[johnrobertgordon 0]

May I ask how well it does the twisty bits? I know thats not its main purpose in life but I am mighty interested to know if it handles or not.

 

Amazing work though, top job!

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

there are no twisties on a qtr mile course so we haven't tested it yet.

 

we'll do when we get out on a race track, to risky too do it on public roads.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

and finally, the last update of the Phase 6 story!

 

 

it's quite an eventful and exciting one as we get to test the car at an airstrip:

 

 

and discover there are a few problems, just a couple of days before the drag race!

 

 

luckily, we manage to get everything ready in time for the race:

 

 

and close another chapter of the 205 Mi32 project, a year down the line of starting it!

 

 

therefore... PHASE 6 COMPLETE!

 

 

you can find the fourth and final part of the story (with 23 new pics) on THIS PAGE.

 

 

airfield testing video and race report coming very soon!

 

 

thanks.

[Ahl 4]

Nice one Nik! It looks the business on the Ronals. I hope you get some good results today.

[Guest lozza-pugboy]

wow the amoutn of time and skill that has gone into that 205 is amazing good job

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

video of testing in a safe environment, at a secondary airstrip of Mahovljani airfield

near Banja Luka. the front clutch was severly slipping and the rear throttle wasn't

opening fully, so measurements were unsuccessful .

 

 

 

205 Mi32 :: video #007 :: Mahovljani airfield testing with G-Tech Pro

 

 

 

thanks.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Any figures fot it yet Nik? Did you resolve the slipping clutch and throttle cable with your adjustments?

 

Maxi

[Doof 11]

Stunning Nik, just stunning! Well done to you, looks a real weapon!

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

G-Tech showed something like 14.5s 402m (1/4 mile) with 165 km/h trap speed

and 0-100 km/h in about 6s. this is, ofcourse, quite a bit slower than what it run

in the race with the twin controls nearly sorted out (which was still about 90% of

what it can achieve at the moment).

 

more info in the imminent update .

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Thats just fantastic.

 

Was the slipping clutch just due to the new leverage system you had fitted to make the clutch lighter or because its dead?

 

Back end looks a bit higher than the front or is that just due to the arches?

 

The Ronal's look ace on it.

 

Graham.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

yeah, the pedal travel wasn't enough to cover the full movement of the clutch arm,

combined with hydraulic cylinders having a mind of their own... the clutch plates

are new sintermetal paddle ones so they shouldn't die so easily , unless those

full throttle slipping clutch airfield tests hurt it .

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

new folder created - 2007 Race Season Events - self-explanatory really .

 

 

the first event story in there is:

 

402 Street Race - Mostar (BIH) - 28/Apr/07

 

 

 

1st round of qualifications: against friend's 405 Mi16, the 205 Mi32 ran 14.13 secs

(including reaction time) with quite a bit of potential left, which qualified us for

the 14 secs class, which was what we wanted.

 

2nd round of qualifications: lined up against a 282 n/a bhp Civic. setting off on

red-light so we'd get an ET for a full throttle run without reaction time, but still

stay in the 14 secs class. The result was 13.42 secs - pretty much what we had been

expecting a year ago when we started the project.

 

1st round of race: against a mk1 Golf VR6 with NOS - my father messed up a gearchange

into 2nd gear, but still gave the golf a run for his money and made him break into

13 secs class while we continued competing in the 14 secs class.

 

2nd round of race: against a very fast mk1 Golf with an unknown engine - my father

wasn't lined up properly and thus triggered the red light with the smallest of car

movement, before he actually got to start. we placed an appeal but in the end they

didn't make a re-run so that was the end... pretty crap way to end it but that's life .

 

 

 

 

anyway, all-in-all, we're sattisfied with the result, seeing it was only a single try

and we actually still had a little bit of problems with front clutch slipping and rear

throttle not opening fully, which together with a few tweaks should see the car run

very low 13's (without reaction time) on the next race!

 

 

you can see the full picture story (with 40 pics) on THIS PAGE.

 

 

video of 205 Mi32 in action coming very soon!

 

 

thanks.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Cybernck's infamous red shorts live to see another day.

 

Graham.

[TeCh2pe 0]

Very nice project! Have been watching it at www.peugeot-sport-club.no.

Just waiting to see the video of the 205 Mi32 in action at the 402 Street Race.

Edited May 9, 2007 by TeCh2pe