Jasper205GTI 0 Posted October 28, 2006 (edited) Hi there, I've been searching this forum for a few weeks now and PM'ed some members who already started topics about S16 wiring for information. But now I feel that I have to start my own topic, cause I couldn't find all the answers to my S16 related questions Short introduction: I'm trying to get a S16 engine to work in my 205GTI, donorcar was a Citroen ZX16v which I have never seen (bought the 205GTI with the S16 already in there, nothing wired up, old 205GTI loom still in there, etc). The donorcar was built in '93 and the 205GTI is a '90 model which has a pre '91 loom. What have I done so far: I've wired up all (or atleast I think) the necessary wires for it to atleast start (or spark/inject). Since the donor was a citroen (including loom) I couldnt really use all the wirenumbers/colors floating around on the forum cause it's all different, for some reason they also decided to make almost every wire green lol By reading the haynes and ECU pinouts I managed to find every wire needed. What is working right now: I've got the multirelay to switch the fuelpump (can hear it running and there is fuel coming out), I got 5v on the cylinderhead sensor and 5v on the TDC sensor, I'm also getting 550 ohms between the 2 TDC pins. I got 12v on the injectors and 12v on the coil packs. The k-light is lit and startermotor works when I turn the key. I've got switched live on ECU #3 and #27 and constant live on ECU #18. I've got earth on ECU #19. I've got constant live on multirelay #8, #11, #14 and #15 and switched live on #2 and #3. What is not working: Well, I've read it before in other topics... I'm not getting any fuel out of the injectors and there's no spark! Actual question : What does a locked out ECU do... and what doesnt it do... basically, is my ECU locked or not? Does the k-light light up on a locked ECU? does a locked ECU switch the fuel pump? Or is there still a chance it is locked? I've got no keypad attached and have no clue if it's locked, I've been told that it's not very likely that a '93 ZX16v has an immobiliser but nobody said it isn't possible Another question, does anyone have pinouts for the ZX16v multiplugs (which I had to get rid of in order to connect the loom to my 205GTI loom)? I'm talking about these two: and Ofcourse I've already figured out quite a few wires coming out of them cause I needed them for starterengine/switched live/constant live/fuelpump/k-light/etc but there might be some more that I need to connect on which I'm not measuring anything special at the moment. Edited October 28, 2006 by Jasper205GTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted October 28, 2006 Looking at the Haynes diagram you only need an ignition switched live to pin #2 on the double relay. Pin 8 & 11 should have a constant 12v's direct from the battery distribution block along with pin # 18 on the ecu not switched. Pin#3 & #27 should be switched from the double relay not seperately. Pin #19 should be an earth for the CAS. A locked ecu won't let the car start, this could be the cause of your problems, ecu has no control over the fuel pump but has over the spark & injectors. A 1993 ZX will probably have had a keypad immobiliser fitted & if it had your ecu could be locked. You need to find someone with an unlocked ecu so you can test your wiring. Some of this is also mentioned in this topic. Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper205GTI 0 Posted October 28, 2006 (edited) First, thanks for your reply and moving my topic... didnt really think it would fit in aftermarket management systems but now I see it says "as well as technical chat about ignition". Looking at the Haynes diagram you only need an ignition switched live to pin #2 on the double relay. yeah pin #2 and #3 are internally connected (if you look at the diagram), there is no actual pin #3 on my socket. So the actual connection is made through pin #2. Pin 8 & 11 should have a constant 12v's direct from the battery distribution block along with pin # 18 on the ecu not switched. yes that's all correct (double checked just now). Pin#3 & #27 should be switched from the double relay not seperately.Pin #19 should be an earth for the CAS. also correct. Some of this is also mentioned in this topic. yeah been keeping an eye on that topic although the amount of pins and wirecolors he mentions arent the same as what I've got (damn frenchies I'm still waiting for him to post his results so I probably should get another ECU... I'm still thinking about the ignition modules cause I read another thread here which sounds exactly like my situation and ended up to be earth to the modules. I've checked the ignition module plug and there are 3 earth pins per plug. All of them beep through to the cylinderhead for example, but allanallen mentions that he forgot the separate earth wiring... I've been buzzing through the ZX multiplugs and found 2 grey wires that also have a connection with earth (and because of that also with the ignition modules earth ofcourse), as soon as I connect those directly to earth the startermotor runs slower than before and the wires get kinda warm only tried for a split second nothing seems to be damaged... So the 2 grey wires which are part of the ZX multiplug have a connection with the loom's earth... but when I connect them directly to earth things seem to go "wrong". Might be that the problem is somewhere else and that making that connection brings that up.... Edited October 28, 2006 by Jasper205GTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted October 28, 2006 The ignition module earths could explain the lack of spark but the coilpacks are known to fail due to overheating on the S16 engine iirc. It still wouldn't explain the fact that the injectors aren't firing though which is controlled by the ecu. Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilgie 16 2 Cars Posted October 28, 2006 Is pin 27 of the ECU connected to switch live? Seem like the multirelay is connected OK, but the ECU is not getting power or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper205GTI 0 Posted October 28, 2006 The ignition module earths could explain the lack of spark but the coilpacks are known to fail due to overheating on the S16 engine iirc. true coilpacks are a weak spot, which is why all 4 of them are new I've got switched live on ECU #3 and #27 and constant live on ECU #18. I've got earth on ECU #19. so yes... I'm getting switched live... measured on the ECU plug with ignition on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilgie 16 2 Cars Posted October 29, 2006 Jasper, is the TDC sensor connected and not faulty? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper205GTI 0 Posted October 29, 2006 (edited) TDC is connected (pin 48/49 on ECU + earth) and I'm measuring 5v on the TDC plug when I put the ignition on. When I measure between the 2 TDC pins, I'm getting ~550ohms, which should be okay according to some documentation I've got here. I havent checked (with a scope) what I does when I crank it, mainly because I don't own a scope and because I wouldn't know where to measure (when all the plugs are connected, you've got no place to measure) Edited October 29, 2006 by Jasper205GTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper205GTI 0 Posted November 11, 2006 okay managed to get spark.... I'm not 100% sure why yet but it's either the fact that I disconnected the fuelpump (which seems unlikely) or because I decided to firmly attach the battery's positive terminal with it's bolt instead of just putting it on there (I read somewhere that the modules are kinda picky and won't generate any sparks when you don't properly attach it). I'm still not getting any injection though, but now that's it's sparking I know for sure that the ECU won't be locked, which means getting injection going is just a matter of not giving up afaik, the sequential injection gets it's timing from the cyl. reference sensor, I'm measuring 5v between pins 1+2 and 7v between 2+3... this is with ignition on. Only managed to get spark just now so I'll continue tomorrow to see if I can get them injectors going (they do have ~11.5v when ignition is on... so it's the actual pulse which is missing I suppose). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pugrallye 0 Posted November 26, 2006 switch ignition on and crank engine over by hand, you should hear injectors 'clicking' as crank sensor triggers, if you have no clicking, you either have crank sensor fault or the brown relay is acting up (not noraml as they are pretty robust) plus you would normally get other probs as it also controls fuel pump Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonofsam 5 Posted November 26, 2006 Nothing as simple as Inertia switch tripped out, if it has one? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper205GTI 0 Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) switch ignition on and crank engine over by hand, you should hear injectors 'clicking' as crank sensor triggers, if you have no clicking, you either have crank sensor fault or the brown relay is acting up (not noraml as they are pretty robust) plus you would normally get other probs as it also controls fuel pump Multirelay (brown relay) works when I apply 12v to the correct pins (both relays work). Fuelpump is also running (that's 1 relay) and the injectors have ~11.5v when ignition is on (and that's the 2nd relay). So I suppose the multirelay is okay. I've also swapped the camsensor (this times the sequential injection if I'm correct) but that didn't help, TDC is working since it has spark... I haven't heard any clicking yet... (has been nearly 2 weeks since I tried, haven't had much time but if they'd click, then there would be fuel coming out since there is fuel coming out of the other end of the injectorrail (right?). Nothing as simple as Inertia switch tripped out, if it has one? Doesn't have one afaik, and doesn't that also cut off the fuelpump? (which runs). Edited December 1, 2006 by Jasper205GTI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper205GTI 0 Posted March 6, 2007 okay has been a while but I'd like to post the final solution to my (2nd) problem for all those using the search in the future I started working on the car again last weekend and found out that the ECU did send pulses to the injector plugs. So I tried applying 12 volts to the injectors directly and they (obviously) didn't fire. After fitting 4x 1.9 8v injectors it started immediately So I guess the 16v ones are stuck or something, don't hear them "click" when I apply 12 volt. I'll have them cleaned and see if that helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
