Vtr In A 205

[stealth_pug 0]

hi, just wandering how difficult a vtr conversion into an xs is. im just thinking about any mechanical problems at the moment as in the actual positioing of the engine

thanks

[Sandy 191]

Mechanically it's bolt in, but the electrics and providing pressurised fuel complicates it.

[d-9 0]

not worth the hassle, XS engine with mods would be just as good.

[Guest Pugw0t]

yeh vtr engines r pretty weak, vts now they've got abit of go.

[timmsy19 3]

dont bother with the vtr its not as quick as an xs even in standard form

[stu_woac 1]

hmmm if you want to go injection then look for a 1.6 106 rallye engine

or go for the 16v opition, the vtr engine is a good base for modding your get alot more power from it in the future,

 

ummm they are not a weak engine I dont understand the comment

 

there isnt much more hassle to put this engine in so dont understand that comment either

 

so you need a unlocked ecu

and a 205 gti tank and return line wow such a hassle

[Sandy 191]

To expand a little; getting an unlocked ECU with the engine sounds easy, but often isn't and the looms are often difficult to decipher because the numbers wear off the wires. Fitting the tank is easy in principle, but can be alot of hassle in practice with the age of the pipes and bolts making for lots of breakages. The fuel lines aren't straight forward, because of the brake line on the drivers side on base models gets in the way and using the low pressure hose already there would be ill advised. It's not rocket science, I was pointing out that these are the issues that need to be dealt with. It's up to the person doing it to decide how much hassle that is.

Edited October 8, 2006 by sandy309

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

One could of course transplant the VTR engine and use carbs instead of the standard injection. So the hassle with injection, fuel tank, sender, pump and ECU would all not be needed.

[stu_woac 1]

To expand a little; getting an unlocked ECU with the engine sounds easy, but often isn't and the looms are often difficult to decipher because the numbers wear off the wires. Fitting the tank is easy in principle, but can be alot of hassle in practice with the age of the pipes and bolts making for lots of breakages. The fuel lines aren't straight forward, because of the brake line on the drivers side on base models gets in the way and using the low pressure hose already there would be ill advised. It's not rocket science, I was pointing out that these are the issues that need to be dealt with. It's up to the person doing it to decide how much hassle that is.

 

cheers sandy for pointing out why they can be a problem, I couldn't be bothered earlier, having a bit of a bad week so being abit snappy today

 

the return pipe is easy over come by drilling holes and putting new pipe clips to the back of the car

[calvinhorse 870]

or use the xs head and carb on vtr bottom end!! my personal favorite!!

[stealth_pug 0]

thanks for the replies. I was planning on using carbs to keep it simple. I have an xs engine waiting to be stripped but it went in smoke so not sure if i will be able to use the head. So basically if i use carbs it is a straightforward swop over? The reason i want to do it is that the 205 has been in the garage for 6 months with a blown engine and i just want to put something back in it so i can drive it again and a mate will soon be selling his vtr engine which has only done 20k and runs really well. Im only 19 and will soon have 1 year no claims so can't have much more power or i won't be abe to insure it. What carbs would be best to use? I currently have a 1.4 xs carb and the 1.1 base model carb still or is there anything which would be better?

thanks

[Sandy 191]

The XS head on the VTR bottom end would give you about 11.2:1 compression ratio, which wouldn't really be suited to distributor ignition and the standard carb from the XS certainly wouldn't be able to fuel it. Sam has been through most of these permeatations and ended up with a reasonably good engine using 40 DCOE carbs and the XSi 106 head. It's still not easy though because the engine mount is an obstacle on the drivers side and the Chadil inlet manifold is pretty rubbish. He ended up on TB's by the end.

[stu_woac 1]

tee sa english ralle team maing dcoe manifold or the xs that is a straigt v shape, I'mtinkingabout it but dont know yet I'll put a lin u in a bit

[Sandy 191]

Eh??

 

If you want to see all the combinations Sam and me have tried, there are details on www.dcoe.net

Edited October 10, 2006 by sandy309

[stu_woac 1]

there is a rally team in the uk making dcoe manifolds for the xs head, that are straight and in the v shape

 

lol who wrote the rubbish b4 hand looks like the germlins were out to play

[Sandy 191]

Any links or pics, I haven't seen that. I'd go straight to the black top VTR/106 Rallye/XSi/306 1.6 head personally, better ports and bigger valves as it comes.

[stu_woac 1]

[d-9 0]

or you could fit a standard VTS engined and get 140bhp with a half decent exhaust and filter

 

*argues with sandy lots*

[Sandy 191]

That manifold is definately looking better than the Chadil one, but I wouldn't spend money on the XS head when there's a better one available.

 

The exhaust won't be a simple fit though Doug?

[Guest simran]

where can i buy one of those inlet manifolds from, and does it get around the problem of fouling the top engine mount, or does that need to be modified/a new one made to allow that manifold to fit? quite interested.

[stu_woac 1]

looking at it it most like still fouls the mount its sold by timotorsport.co.uk alot of cool stuff for a xs owner, I've not personally seen this on a xs so just give them a bell very useful people

Edited October 26, 2006 by stu_woac

[Sandy 191]

I've just fitted my long curved inlet manifold design to a 106 with 280 catcam, QEP head, Devil 4-2-1, 45mm Jenvey TB's and 370mm overall inlet length. We had a few issues with the twin injector setting up which are still to be fully resolved, but the initial results are very encouraging and the engine mount didn't need to be modified other than replacing the inner stud with a bolt.

Here's the manifold:

http://noboost.com/temp/sandy/SB03.jpg

 

Here's a graph against my friends unusually quick 106GTi (GMC 4-1 exh manifold and BMC filter, otherwise std) on the same rollers in comparible conditions, figures are from static load and are taken at the wheels, only take them as relative because I generally find these rollers are pessimistic compared to most:

Edited October 26, 2006 by sandy309

[stu_woac 1]

thats got to be sounding nice at 4500rpm when it seem to take off

[Sandy 191]

It sounds fantastic, 8v's on TB's usually do, but this is very hammery and nice!