Trailing Arm Shafts

[V8Pete 0]

Hi

 

Where do you Britons get your trailing arm shafts and what do you pay? The local NZ dealer want the equivalent of over 100 GBP each. Is this about right? Are there any aftermarket (cheaper) alternatives of the same or better quality as Peugeot OEM items? Are they something a hobbyist with a lathe could knock together?

 

Thanks.

[M@tt 77]

we pay about £55 each for them and there are no aftermarket suppliers of them unfortunbately its a peugeot dealer part only

 

I spoke to a machine shop about getting some of these made and the problem they said was the drilling of the large hole through te middle of them, it would be pretty expensive.

Edited October 2, 2006 by M@tt

[jim21070 2]

I spoke to a machine shop about getting some of these made and the problem they said was the drilling of the large hole through te middle of them, it would be pretty expensive.

 

Yes, that is one heck of a hole. Has anyone ever enquired about having the bearing journals metal sprayed and then reground? This would seem a perfectly feasable way of refurbishing them. Any machine shop dealing in heavy plant should be able to do this.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I know Pugtorque was looking into Phosphor Bronze inserts on a beam at one point

[welshpug 1,657]

I know of a citroen specialist who refurbs arm shafts byt basically building up the metal with a welder then machining it back down, but the cost is as much as an arm shaft and labour to replace.

[jim21070 2]

I know Pugtorque was looking into Phosphor Bronze inserts on a beam at one point

 

It would not be unrealistic to do this at home. I have a couple of duff trailing arms and a lathe. I feel another winter project coming on

[M@tt 77]

another possibility whitch i'm sure has been mentioned before but i dont think anyone looked into much is the possibility of mahining face down slightly and fitting new bearings which have the same out race diameter (so that they still have an intereference fit withthe tube but a smaller inner diameter (probably fewer & bigger needle bearings),

 

would be worth taking a existing new inner and outer bearing into a bearing place and see what they come up with

[beedee 0]

V8 Pete

 

I've got a Pug in need of trailing arm shafts in NZ too

 

I've done a bit of hunting around at the options for replacement and have found the following:

1. Peugeot NZ - $278NZD+GST each (~£100)

2. GSF - £39 each - I have placed an order but they have been out of stock for 2 months

3. Machine shop repair - machine shaft and hard chrome plating - $600NZD per pair (~£180)

4. Machine shop make - $1000NZD per pair

 

The machine shop indicated that metal spraying was not suitable as a surface for needle roller bearings

Hard chrome plating was a reasonable technical option but won't last as long as a new part

 

Has anyone had any luck getting trailing arm shafts from GSF or Autofive?

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Another thought on this is that wouldn't wider bearings in the tube reduce the load per square centimeter on the bearing and thus make them last longer and less prone to collapse?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I know Pugtorque was looking into Phosphor Bronze inserts on a beam at one point

I've got them fitted to my 309 beam & have had for the last two years or so that its been fitted to this car.(10k+)

 

 

 

Works fine, only thing I've noticed is when I re-greased it earlier this year & adjusted the ride height one of the bushes was loose in the centre tube so I'm intending to fit it again with some bearing fit to hold it solid. Its currently held by the grease nipple but I'm not happy with it like that & want it properly held.

 

I asked about getting some more made but they were going to cost about £40 a set unless I was getting loads made but a mate bought a decent lathe earlier this year so I just need some Phosphur bronse bar big enough to make some more.

 

One of the shafts on my beam is in a pretty bad state (far better than the picture below) but it works fine & when I had it apart in the summer there were no signs of wear on the bushes. I'm going to fit a better shaft over winter when I hopefully stick the moving bush back in. Not sueif they are teh same side though.

 

 

This bush only replaces the outer bearing, I still have the normal inner bearings which don't get as much wear but still have the outer seals etc like a normal beam just I can grease the beam occasionally & push any water that might've started working in back out with the old grease.

 

Graham.

[V8Pete 0]

Beedee,

 

GSF sounds interesting...

 

Did one of the places you contacted happen to be Machine Part Welding Ltd in Penrose, Auckland? I was going to take the shafts in when I get 'round to pulling everything apart and see what they think.

 

Does anyone know the original dimensions and tolerances for the beam and shafts?

[beedee 0]

V8Pete

The machining company is MS Coombes Ltd, 344 St Asaph St, Christchurch

 

GSF list the trailing arm shafts on their website.

I ordered a pair in mid Aug and they are still out of stock. They cannot give me any specific info about if/when they will be back in stock. I am close to giving up waiting

 

 

Has anyone bought trailing arm shafts from Autofive recently??

[max0 5]

V8Pete

The machining company is MS Coombes Ltd, 344 St Asaph St, Christchurch

 

GSF list the trailing arm shafts on their website.

I ordered a pair in mid Aug and they are still out of stock. They cannot give me any specific info about if/when they will be back in stock. I am close to giving up waiting

Has anyone bought trailing arm shafts from Autofive recently??

 

i think nick aka wurzel noted that the GSF bearings have less rollers on the bearings so it puts more load on them, so its best to go with pug bearings. unless GSF have changed?

[Rik 0]

mmmmmmmm titanium shafts?

 

now theres a thought....

 

I'm going hunting in my works scrap bin tomorrow!!!

[V8Pete 0]

Do any of you have the original trailing arm shaft and beam dimensions and tolerances in case I end up getting them repaired instead of replaced?

 

Also, I've never taken an exhaust off before. Do you need to put anything between the flanges where the exhaust pipe connects to the manifold when re-connecting it?

 

Cheers

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I did have the trailing arm shaft dimensions but can't find them right now.

 

Anthony has them & so does Cybernck iirc.

 

There should be a ring gasket that fits onto the manifold between this & the downpipe. Peugeot are the best source for this in the kit they sell for about £10 which has the gasket, bolts, springs washers & nuts.

 

Graham.

[bren_1.3 1]

i think nick aka wurzel noted that the GSF bearings have less rollers on the bearings so it puts more load on them, so its best to go with pug bearings. unless GSF have changed?

 

another possibility whitch i'm sure has been mentioned before but i dont think anyone looked into much is the possibility of mahining face down slightly and fitting new bearings which have the same out race diameter (so that they still have an intereference fit withthe tube but a smaller inner diameter (probably fewer & bigger needle bearings),

 

arent we missing the point slightly? im sure needle roller bearings shouldn't really be used in these sorts of suspension applications anyway. then again space does limit the options you have in say using something like a ball bearing with an solid outer race. much like a wheel bearing.

 

you have to get around the point of the bearing only rotating within a certain point. hence how the bearings ive seen seem to wear up at the top. where the weight of the car presses up on them wearing them down. if you managed to get the needle bearings to rotate more than say, 45 degress either way (which is due to the limit of movement the torsion bar allows) then you'd have a longer lasting bearing, which isnt to say the problem would disappear, just means you'd get a better life out of them.

 

with regards to maching a big f*ck off hole through the centre of the trailing arm shaft, wouldnt it only have to be say 20mm? to allow a standard anti-roll bar to pass through it?

[jackherer 543]

you have to get around the point of the bearing only rotating within a certain point. hence how the bearings ive seen seem to wear up at the top. where the weight of the car presses up on them wearing them down. if you managed to get the needle bearings to rotate more than say, 45 degress either way (which is due to the limit of movement the torsion bar allows) then you'd have a longer lasting bearing, which isnt to say the problem would disappear, just means you'd get a better life out of them.

 

I believe that is proven by base models (with more suspension travel) beams lasting longer and generally not taking the whole tube out when they do go. The beam design is good for standard shopping trolleys but its not suited to performance applications IMO.

[bren_1.3 1]

I believe that is proven by base models (with more suspension travel) beams lasting longer and generally not taking the whole tube out when they do go. The beam design is good for standard shopping trolleys but its not suited to performance applications IMO.

 

wandering off-topic slightly but i reckon a conversion to some kind of rear turret setup would come to about the price of a pair of uprated torsion bars and anti-roll bar. say 400 quid? (doing at least part of the work yourself) Batfink had something similair but cant remember for the life of me how much it all cost. was a proper leda setup IIRC.

[Beastie 1]

arent we missing the point slightly? im sure needle roller bearings shouldn't really be used in these sorts of suspension applications anyway. then again space does limit the options you have in say using something like a ball bearing with an solid outer race. much like a wheel bearing.

 

you have to get around the point of the bearing only rotating within a certain point. hence how the bearings ive seen seem to wear up at the top. where the weight of the car presses up on them wearing them down. if you managed to get the needle bearings to rotate more than say, 45 degress either way (which is due to the limit of movement the torsion bar allows) then you'd have a longer lasting bearing, which isnt to say the problem would disappear, just means you'd get a better life out of them.

 

with regards to maching a big f*ck off hole through the centre of the trailing arm shaft, wouldnt it only have to be say 20mm? to allow a standard anti-roll bar to pass through it?

 

 

Maybe needle rollers shouldn't be used for this application but no one has yet come up with a proven alternative which is even as good. The phosphor bronze idea is a well proven one and was used for independent suspension designs in the 1920s as well as for spring eye bushes over the last hundred years. People never used to grease them often enough and vintage car owners still often don't. Renewing them is good for business In order to surpass the needle roller design in the Peugeot rear beam the phosphor bronze conversion has to last for over 100000 miles with no attention though. Even then it will need regular greasing which only an enthusiast is prepared to give it. The original design had a good life and was maintainance free. It represented a significant improvement over the plain bushes of years gone by and in implementing it Peugeot adopted a principle already used by Jaguar, Aston Martin and Ferarri.

 

Can I have my Peugeot loyalty badge now please?