Starting Issues

[futura 3]

After many many months not to say years of troubleshooting my 205, I still can't get my head round the starting issue. It will start first time if I leave the car parked for a couple of days, but will take 4-5 seconds to start if the weather is hot or if the engine is warm and has been stopped for more than 5 minutes.

When it starts from cold it runs a bit rough at low rev (750-800rpm) and then progressively more smoothly as the idle increases to 950rpm after 1 minute.

 

Also after a reving session, it will idle at 1500 rpm, to very slowly drop back to a more acceptable idle.

 

I have changed

- rotor cap and arm, leads and coil

- water temperature sensor

- fuel filter and cracked petrol hose

- tried several AFM, set up the mixture

- tested the SAD, it does close completely, but may need to be wider open to let in more air.

- took the injectors ramp out and left it under pressure for 30 minutes, apparently not leaking

- fitted the peugeot recommended spark plugs

- tried different ignition advance settings

- looked for air leaks, changed the inlet manifold gasket and cleaned the induction components

 

Also another thing that may be a cause of my problems: on low petrol tank, I get erratic petrol supply out of sharp/long/fast bends and it makes the engine temporarily cut off.

 

If anyone has an idea about the next thing I should try (don't say bin the engine ), please let me know

[mickie 3]

when i first got my 205 it would run then cut out, that i think was due to the techy relay, have you looked at this ?

[adammada33 0]

I no you have tested it but sound like sad to me

[futura 3]

when i first got my 205 it would run then cut out, that i think was due to the techy relay, have you looked at this ?

I haven't tested it, though when my car cuts out it's definitely linked to the amount of petrol left in the tank, it never cuts out when tank is over 1/4. I'll check it just in case

 

I no you have tested it but sound like sad to me

Do you reckon? I would think SAD would explain the idling problems, but not sure about warm starting issues. I need to get hold of another working SAD to test for sure, if anyone has one laying around give me shout.

[adammada33 0]

I haven't tested it, though when my car cuts out it's definitely linked to the amount of petrol left in the tank, it never cuts out when tank is over 1/4. I'll check it just in case

Do you reckon? I would think SAD would explain the idling problems, but not sure about warm starting issues. I need to get hold of another working SAD to test for sure, if anyone has one laying around give me shout.

the sad can cause warm start isues if it is sticking or working intermitently

[Theo205 0]

I had and still have the EXACTY the same problem for more than a year.

 

When its cold, in the morning it fires up normally.

 

If I stop the car when hot and turn the engine over instantly it will start without a problem.

 

If I leave it to rest and try to turn over after 30mins it wont start easily (will take 5-6 turnovers to fireup)

 

I've been checking every single part since the problem appeared.

Tacho relay, battery,ecu, afm, ign. amplifier but nothing appeared to be causing this.

BUT what I do know is that my injectors are not in a good shape and they appeared to be leaking a bit. This can flood the engine and in result give u a hard time starting an hour later.

 

Why not do it when left overnight? My guess is because petrol evaporates or leaks down the piston rings?

 

I will soon verify that when i get my refurbished injectors set back.

 

Theo

[welshpug 1,657]

clean/replace the brown multiplug, this causes soo many starting/running problems as quite a few vital componnts are controlled via this particular connector.

 

do a quick search using "brown multiplug"

[futura 3]

Thanks for the last two posts

 

I've bought a spare SAD so will try this soon and see if it is the problem.

 

I've also got a spare set of injectors but don't if they're in good condition. Is there any visual way of checking them at all?

 

If the two previous solutions don't bring any joy I'll buy this nice connector to replace the brown one

[welshpug 1,657]

once I replaced the connector and the connetion to the starter motor I had banished the intermittent non cranking and I also had to re-set my idle speed due to the stronger current reaching the SAD and engine temp sensor, I might have to get the mixture checked as well as it seems a little rich now!

[futura 3]

once I replaced the connector and the connetion to the starter motor I had banished the intermittent non cranking and I also had to re-set my idle speed due to the stronger current reaching the SAD and engine temp sensor, I might have to get the mixture checked as well as it seems a little rich now!

Bloody hell, that's amazing how just a corroded connector is source of so much trouble.

I noticed mine has green corrosion and some of the plastic is chipping away, I hope replacing it will sort all my problems!

 

Did you replace yours with the male/female combination from Simtec (CON-015 & CON-016) ?

And if so did you have to work on the wiring of bigger current leads? (i.e. separate connector for the starter motor cable)?

[futura 3]

I have received the connectors from www,Simtekuk.co.uk today and will fit them tomorrow.

Connector refs are CON-005, CON-006, CON-015 and CON-016.

 

Thanks Welshpug for all the info, I'll let you know if it sorts my starting issues!

Edited September 23, 2006 by futura

[welshpug 1,657]

theyre the ones

 

stick the single connector on the starter solenoid wire and work through the connector from one side to the other and you cant go wrong

[futura 3]

Well, here's the verdict: it does look clean (especially compared to the state of my engine bay)

it did improve conductivity as my idle was slightly up on restart, however I still have my warm starting issues...

 

For the second time I noticed that I could smell petrol through the throttle body when taking out the right angle air pipe, so I'm thinking my injectors must be leaking somehow.

 

I have a spare set that I bought off someone on here but their condition is unknown.

Is there any visual way to check them before I try to fit them on?

Edited September 23, 2006 by futura

[futura 3]

Well I changed my injectors today and it apparently sorted my starting problems, hurrayy!

 

However on restart it would stall so I had to adjust the idling screw a lot.

Now the car doesn't run very smoothly, it vibrates a lot on idle and there's a significant loss of power.

 

Can the injectors have made such a difference?

If so what is the best path, a reconditionning treatment or a brand new set of injectors (£££!) ?

 

Your replies appreciated

[jonD6B 0]

Now that you've done the injectors, have it set up properly. It baffles me how many people on here try and guess setting the engine up when it only costs £25 to have it set up properly (standard engines) and you can have piece of mind that it's right.

[futura 3]

That's the thing, the injectors are not doing their job properly, I bought them in unknown condition and the ramp I took them off from was all crusty inside. I think the injectors' filters are partly blocked, they are not spraying properly and the engine is vibrating big time.

They need sorted first or else attempting to set up the engine like this would just be a waste of money.

[welshpug 1,657]

either get a known good set or send them off to be refurbished.

I dont think a new set is that costly either.

 

now that the ECU is receiving the signals from the temp sensor and AFM properly again they'll need re-setting.

 

basically start from scratch, warm it up so that the sad is fully closed, then set the throttle initial position and idle speed as follows -

 

Turn the air Screw all the way (with the engine stopped)

 

unscrew the throttle stop screw then re-tighten it untill it just touches the throttlwe lever, tighten the screw a further 4 complete turns. (ensure that the throttle cable does not prevent the lever from reaching full travel)

 

start the engine and adjust the throttle stop screw till the idle is at roughly 600 rpm for a 1.9 or 650 for a 1.6.

 

then adjust the air screw till the idle is roughly 900-950 rpm.

 

stop the engine and adjust the the throttle switch.

 

after all that check the emissions and adjust the AFM to suit

 

 

please bear in mind that the above will only return the settings to factory if the dizzy timing is correct, so check and re-set that as neccesary.

 

hope that helps

[futura 3]

Thanks once again Welshpug

My dizzy is currently set up by hear using the uphill pinking adjusting method so it will need re-adjusted once I have working injectors.

 

The big question is, can I send the set that was leaking for a cleaning service and be sure that it will return not leaking anymore?