d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 11, 2006 I've just a bought Ph1 1.6 as a bit of a project and the first problem to sort is of an electric kind and hoped someone could shed some light..... The basic problem is that when you turn the key, absolutely nothing happens. No lights on the dash, no starter, no clicking, no nothing. I'm going to take a closer look at the problem on Wednesday but I wondered if anyone had any ideas? The last owner said he thought it was an ECU issue, does this sound right? I've tried a search but with no joy. Thanks, Dave. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonah 1 Posted September 11, 2006 Definitely not the ECU. It has no control of dash lights or the starter motor. Does anything electrical work? Some things should still work with the ignition off, like headlights, interior light, hazards. If those still work then the fault is probably in the ignition switch or the wiring around it (possibly a connector pulled apart or a plug pulled out of the fuse board in the glovebox). If there's no electrics at all then look at the connections around the battery - the earth connects to the chassis via the ignition amp heatsink plate, so make sure that its mountings aren't badly corroded - and check the battery +ve distribution box that's bolted to the slam panel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted September 11, 2006 Hunt around the "cubby holes" for a hidden Kill switch immobiliser- mine had a switch hidden at the back of the storage bin under the stereo- which I luckily found before I put something in and switched it off accidently! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 11, 2006 Cheers for the ideas so far guys, I'll give these a try tonight as I've managed to change plans to pick it up today. Keep 'em coming!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BrainFluid Posted September 13, 2006 When mine went on the Td it was because the earth wire that clips onto the right hand strut had sheared off. Hth. Nate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 14, 2006 Well I had a play around last night and the earth strap, fuses and battery terminals seemed fine but still no power. Just to check the battery I hooked up some jump leads and immediatley the lights came on!! (i'd left them switched on to see if my efforts bore fruit). I tried the key and the engine started to turn but just didn't have enough juice ( and my 1.9 was starting to hunt under the strain) so it looks like it might be the battery and maybe starter?? Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vikgti 0 Posted September 14, 2006 Charge or replace the battery and try again, from the sounds of it your battery is totally dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted September 14, 2006 Well I had a play around last night and the earth strap, fuses and battery terminals seemed fine but still no power. Just to check the battery I hooked up some jump leads and immediatley the lights came on!! (i'd left them switched on to see if my efforts bore fruit). I tried the key and the engine started to turn but just didn't have enough juice ( and my 1.9 was starting to hunt under the strain) so it looks like it might be the battery and maybe starter?? Thoughts? Swap with the 1.9 and see! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 14, 2006 Swap with the 1.9 and see! I like your thinking, i'll try it if it ever stops raining up here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pugrallye 0 Posted September 15, 2006 (edited) sounds like a battery issue more than anything, but would def check for battery clamps clamping correctly too Edited September 15, 2006 by pugrallye Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 16, 2006 Ok, I managed to get a different battery and try and start it with that. All the electrics worked so I tried the key....engine turned and turned but no ignition. I checked the fuel pipe at the rail and fueling is fine so I moved on to the electrics. Before it got dark I managed to work the lack of spark back to the ignition coil. I've searched the forum and found ths recent post: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=64086 Could it be the ignition amp? and if it is, where would it be located on a D plate Ph1 1.6? There's a box next to the battery with what looks like a relay in it: http://www.david.barber.zen.co.uk/100_0648.JPG Is it the relay in the centre of this pic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshpug 1,657 Posted September 16, 2006 the ignition amp shpold be just behind the coil, make sure that the cable from the dizzy is connected properly. And check tyhe connection to the amplifier itself. The other culprit can be the Brown multiplug... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted September 16, 2006 relay in the black box is the tachymetric on ph 1 cars Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 17, 2006 I've had a full day of it today and i'm still no closer. the car just turns and turns with no ignition. I took some pics of what might be the offending articles: Dizzy There are three wires coming from the ignition amp to the dizzy, but they become two at the dizzy. Does this look right? Earth This is the gearbox end of the earth strap. I haven't cleaned it yet. Coil and ignition amp Pic of the plate, can anyone see any conspicuous looking wires? Is there anyway of testing the ignition amp to be sure it is that prior to buying one? It is fast approaching the time to call an auto electrcian! If anybody is local and knows car electrics then would you be able to lend me a hand? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luggy 13 Posted September 18, 2006 Hi dave When were the plugs leads and dizzy as well as the rotor changed? what Id do is disconnect the battery and check the terminals on the coil, these can sometimes corrode, get a screwdriver and score the terminals and clean/replace the female ends and give them a squirt of wd40. Do that with any connection that is associated with the starting/ ignition system even the earthing point. If Im repeating things youve already done then ignore the rest of this post. Make sure the leads are fully seated on the plugs and dizzy, take them off and re-seat them. Take the dizzy cap off and give it a clean. If that doesnt work then I would start with replacing the basics as I first mentioned at the beginnig of the post. I had a similar problem on my car about 6 months ago, weather was misty and damp never happened before, when out to the car it would just keep turining over but not fire, plugs and leads were new, even when cranking it I was getting a spark but a weak one. All I did was clean the terminals on the coil with some fine sandpaper, fired straight away. Luggy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pug_ham 244 3 Cars Posted September 19, 2006 I've had a full day of it today and i'm still no closer. the car just turns and turns with no ignition. I took some pics of what might be the offending articles: Dizzy There are three wires coming from the ignition amp to the dizzy, but they become two at the dizzy. Does this look right? Yes, Thats right. Earth This is the gearbox end of the earth strap. I haven't cleaned it yet. I doubt the rusty showing on the nut is going to be at fault in this case, if it was that bad the car wouldn't crank over imo. Coil and ignition amp Pic of the plate, can anyone see any conspicuous looking wires? Is there anyway of testing the ignition amp to be sure it is that prior to buying one? Not that I know of, unless some lives near you & has a spare for a knonn good one. Only thing that might be worth checking is the plug you can see in the bottom left of the picture, black & yellow one. If these get damp (if the cars been stood for a while damp gets into them & will stop a spark), try splitting it & spraying it with WD40 along with the dizzy cap & arm. You can check for a spark to the dizzy from the coil with a spark plug in the end of the king lead, it'll spark four times as fast as normal if its working & then test each individual HT lead. A spark doesn't mean its strong enough to ignite the fuel though. Graham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 19, 2006 Thanks putorque/luggy. When the electrical fault first appeared the last owner changed the dizzy and rotor arm so they are only a few months old and are clean. I haven't tried the spark plug off the coil yet so I'll give that a go. I did try with an amp meter at the coil but i'm not sure if I even used the meter correctly so I wouldn't say it was conclusive I'll give that and the yellow plug a try tomorrow night and let you know how I get on. I'm also going to buy a new battery (as this one is definately goosed) and an ignition amp of ebay as its cheap and I have a gut feeling its that! Thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 29, 2006 Ok so far I've changed: - Battery - Ignition Amp - Ignotion Coil - Tachy Relay ...and it still won't start. I've checked the brown multi-plug (in this case its white and brown) but it looks ok and I've tried unclipping and spraying with WD40. Its cleaner than the one in my 1.9 and that runs fine. Anyone get any clues on whats next? I was thinking maybe the starter motor? When I turn the key to ignition on I get the usual lights on in the dashboard, and then when I turn the key further the engine just turns over. I tried the plug on the end of the king lead from the coil but no spark is visible. I'm definatley getting fuel at the rail. Heeeeeeellllllllllllpppppppppp! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ALEX 98 1 Cars Posted September 29, 2006 (edited) Heres a wire that broke on mine once that stopped it working. Longshot but worth checking. At the front of the engine bay there's a little black box abvove the rad near the battery. on the front of the box is a screwed live connection. Check that the wiring is fine around here. Mine snapped off on its own, It was luck that I found it. Edited September 29, 2006 by ALEX Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted September 30, 2006 I've had a look around the box that you mention and all the wiring looks clean and all plugs are connected. I had a go with an altmeter and found the following with Ignition ON: - Over 12 volts to both positive terminals on the coil - Over 12 volts to 2 of the terminals on the ignition amp (from coil) - Over 12 volts to the end of an ignition lead (other end connected to the coil). When I attach a plug to this lead I get no spark when turning the car over. - Earth is fine, can make a 12 volt connection between positive battery terminal and gearbox earth - Only about 1.8 volts on the distributor end of the wire from the ignitions amp, this is the same at the connection in the middle of the cable. - About 6.5 volts from the starter motor to the equivalent of the brown multiplug (it seems to be a 3 pin connector on this car? ) Do all the above points seem normal? I had a look at the cabling under the dash near the fuse box and its just a mass of wires which I can't make head nor tail of? Are there any regular culprits I should be looking for in there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BrainFluid Posted October 1, 2006 Theres fuel in the tank isnt there? Anal i know...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BrainFluid Posted October 1, 2006 (edited) Are the spark plugs gapped right and clean? Edited October 1, 2006 by BrainFluid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d7ve_b 44 1 Cars Posted October 1, 2006 Theres about a quarter of a tank in and its happy squirt out of the pipe connected to the rail when I remove it. The plugs look fine, clean and the gap looks ok, just to be sure I can try a plug of the 1.9. Any more ideas? Or does anyone know a decent auto electrician in the north west? This is really starting to wind me up now as I'm gagging to get in it and give it a spin!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BrainFluid Posted October 1, 2006 Compression test checked out? Dare you try and tow / bump start it? Is the fuel fresh? Ive heard that old fuel can be naff not that I've experianced that. Have you checked the air supply? Maybe the throttle is not opening or theres a blockage somewhere? Shagged ECU? Try some evil easy start? Just throwing ideas at you mate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
