8v Rebuild Quote

[boombang 2]

Thats a bit of a bold dig there. From what I've heard it was a quick quote sent out to someones spec. I am sure you don't spend hours detailing alternatives in quotes and persuading people (who have repeated quotes from looking at other posts on this forum) that they don't want what they want.

 

Or maybe you do spend hours doing that? Could explain a few things

[Guest DesMi16]

Dave,

 

I understand exactly what you are saying and would not disagree with you. Maybe I have a tendency to do things back to front from what you do but, If someone requests a quote for a spec without requesting advise on expected power and how to better spend their cash then I will give them exactly what they want. From reading the spec given and the cost to build that spec, it's fairly safe to say that the engine will never be built. If a customer asks for advise I will give it, if they ask for a definite quote i will give it. It's down to the customer then to take the initiative in approaching us to ask how their money could be better spent. It's part of my process for getting the customer talking and helping tham towards what really would be beneficial for them, and saves me from spending 8 hours a day replying to every email with a lengthy reply detailing what should be done and technical explanations as to why it should be done that way. I, like yourself, have never built an engine I don't think should have been built. The Mi16 bottom end was stated in the original email probably as a result from reading too many posts on here about it. I wish I could live in the ideal world where every customer says 'I have this much to spend, what is the best way forward', but unfortunately it generally doesn't work like that.

 

Believe me, you're not the only one that has arguments with accountants over profit margins and bulls*it, but directly attacking our credibility and honesty in open forum is not really the most professional approach towards helping Rob understand exactly what he is after for his vehicle. It's just a good way of making us look bad and you look good. I will be honest in as much as , yes, I am running a business. A business that does need overheads covering, wages paying, the VAT man and Tax man paying and enough in the bank that if we had a slow period it would be covered but we have never taken money that was not well spent. I have a lot of respect for yourself and what you do and would much rather you were on our list of people to work with rather than against.

[SPGTi 2]

Just to throw my 2p worth in. I have seen a few of Des's engines being setup on the rolling road and they always appear strong and have no problems. The rolling road used (forget how accurate or inaccurate it might be) is run by an ex racer who is very well respected in various different disciplines from Ministox right up to historic race cars worth up to £1million. He rates there work and he has seen a lot of engines inc lots of 205 challenge and scholarship cars.

 

Clubman racing is not cheap anymore especially if you want to be competitive even in "stock" classes. If you are racing the last thing you want is something breaking.

 

steve

[Jonmurgie 2]

Good thread, just had a nice read

 

Des - your right, I haven't ever sat down and worked out CR as I'm no engine builder... it just seemed odd to add that as an extra cost when it would surley be something that was covered in the actualy engine build cost of £1080

 

Anyhow, good to see you on this forum finally... good to get the decent tuners out there on the forum interacting etc.

[PumaRacing 2]

Thats a bit of a bold dig there. From what I've heard it was a quick quote sent out to someones spec. I am sure you don't spend hours detailing alternatives in quotes and persuading people (who have repeated quotes from looking at other posts on this forum) that they don't want what they want.

 

Or maybe you do spend hours doing that? Could explain a few things

 

During the (rare) times when I'm actually taking on any work people don't tend to come to me for this type of quote i.e. a long list of specific things in an engine build and how much they each cost. If someone did I wouldn't supply such a quote anyway. Firstly because very few such enquiries actually turn into work, secondly because it's too time consuming looking up dozens of parts prices and typing them out and thirdly, in this particular case, because it's not a sensible engine build so I wouldn't see the point in pricing it because I wouldn't ever build it.

 

Until I've spoken to the customer, found out what the budget and objectives are and decided on how I think the engine should be built I won't price anything other than in terms of very rough estimates. When I've got an actual spec worked out I'll just give a total for the job. Generally I'll only even base that on gut feel of what I think the job is worth. I certainly won't bother adding up the cost of every single part in the engine like some sort of menu at a restaurant although I'll obviously know what the rough cost of the major ones is. I'll have an idea in my head that it's a 2 grand engine or a 3 grand one and that'll generally do me. It'll always be a round sum amount with at least two zeros on the end.

 

I suppose most of this stems from the fact that I'm not very bothered about the money side of it and I really can't be bothered pricing things in pennies. I don't do this work for the money in the first place. I'd have stuck to Chartered Accountancy if I wanted to be rich. This whole engine building thing was only ever an accident caused by two things. The first was doing some work for friends and then getting swamped by enquiries from other people in the same race series when they won. The second was someone I knew telling me an accountant could never be a successful race engine builder so I did it to prove them wrong.

 

All I ever really wanted in the first place was my own flow bench and my own machinery so I could potter about in my spare time building my own engines instead of having to rely on other people's work.

[boombang 2]

During the (rare) times when I'm actually taking on any work people don't tend to come to me for this type of quote i.e. a long list of specific things in an engine build and how much they each cost. If someone did I wouldn't supply such a quote anyway. Firstly because very few such enquiries actually turn into work, secondly because it's too time consuming looking up dozens of parts prices and typing them out and thirdly, in this particular case, because it's not a sensible engine build so I wouldn't see the point in pricing it because I wouldn't ever build it.

I'm sure there is a fourthly missing from there

[johnrobertgordon 0]

My only advice is always get a quote on paper. I know of some one who has just had to pay 5 times the quote given before the job was started.

[chunkymonkey 0]

im sure ive read some where in this topic that you cannot get mi16 pistons?

im currently thinking about an engine rebuild or conversion but this has made me think now regarding the mi16v

i have also read that the gti6 is to heavy for the little pug ?

im only saying what ive read here on this site

then theirs the dreaded oil surge that ive read about

ive got 2.5k in my budget for the engine so far

any sugestions ???

thx g

[Sandy 191]

I'm glad I don't have to rely on building engines to make a living. At the garage where I started, we only ever built staff's engines, never customers, it was impossible to compete with those who cut corners or did it on the side. if you want a proper job, from an established person/company, it has to come at a price that's profitable for them.

[Beastie 1]

It's a very good way of staying poor and I'm sure my accountant would much prefer I just took the filthy lucre and kept my ethics to myself but as my accountant is also me he doesn't get much say in the matter.

 

Therefore I take my hat off to you: You're like all the true tradesmen I know - you might die poor but you'll do a bl**dy good job Which brings us to what is (for me) the nub of the matter: The wise question is not "is this a reasonable price" but "will this person do a decent job" Anyone who is doing a really good job in this trade will be giving you good value for money because he is probably taking home less per hour than you do. I'll lay money on the fact that you don't always manage to book out all the hours that you put in on a job! That's the motor trade, it's our choice and we take it

[veloce200 3]

yes I agree if you get a good job then it's good value.

I am too honest for my own good and my accounts reflect it. had an mx5 in - cambelt snapped. everyone he phoned said min £750 + labour alone depending on how many valves bent. Well I win the business on a cheap quote and add on a basic head job and seats so he gets "added value". Car arrives I get out the cambelt book and it says it is a freewheeling engine. Belt change all that was needed. Saved him hundreds. How many out there would have said "goes like a rocket now with that modded head"

 

I think forums are great but one thing I've found is the motortrade get's crucified in forums and they rarely charge THAT much. We've just spent £1000 getting some earth removed from out back garden -now that's daylight robbery.

 

It's just a shame that you can spend an hour or two talking on the phone working out quotes only to find it then ends up being debated on the forum of the customers choice. Plumber charge you £90 just to look at the leak. Can you imagine that in the motor trade- yes bring it in £20 to open the bonnet. £20 for sharp intake of breath and £20 for a verbal quote.