150bhp Out Of A 8v?

[roland rat 11]

ive deciced to tune my current engine xu9ja/z dkz engine (cat model) as it seems easier then replacing it with an mi 16 and there are plenty of spares for them.im aiming for 150 bhp over the standard 122bhp that the car should have produced.ive already got a full magnex system to fit (including manifold)and im planning to add a modified head and cam to this.all i really want to know is that can i acheive 150bhp with these mods? any advice opinions greatly apprecated

 

ashley

[TEKNOPUG 3]

No. Not with the standard induction. You'll need carbs or TB's or (ahem) a turbo.

[smckeown 1]

or a skim, bv head and cam

[Craigb 2]

It depends how tight your budget is !

 

Mine has 150 on a plenum but that includes the emerald ecu

 

before the ecu it made 142 with the puma head and cam

[TEKNOPUG 3]

or a skim, bv head and cam

 

 

Quite a big skim if it's the CAT model as they run something like 8.4:1 CR - ideal for turbocharging......

[welshpug 1,657]

yup, up the compression ratio, stick a cam in there and maybe a head job along with your magnex.

 

being a cat model the management you have on there is a pretty good setup and hard to improve on cheaply so stick with it (get it Remapped if possible)

[roland rat 11]

Quite a big skim if it's the CAT model as they run something like 8.4:1 CR - ideal for turbocharging......

F*ckin crappy low comp engine!!! i would love a turbo 205 but cost is the issue.im budgeting myself about £1k to do engine mods.i dont want to go down the usual 'chuck an mi in it' route and like the way my 205 drives.so with a full system tidy modified head and cam what am i looking at?

Edited August 31, 2006 by roland rat

[smckeown 1]

Why don't you start with the higher compression engine to begin with ?

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Well I've yet to RR mine but 150 was my aim. I have incuded a complete engine rebuild so it is not a low budget job.

 

My head came from an SBC engine (NickR's) but its origin is somewhat debatable. It has clearly been gas flowed and has a differnet cam (probably a pretty mild one though). My engine builder took 50thou off to raise compression to 10.4:1. Due to the slightly unknown origin I do not know for sure it hadn't been skimmed before, the engine mount had to be machined to make it fit!

 

It is certainly much quicker than a tired 8v but I've had plenty of trouble getting it to run anywhere near right on stock ECU and dizzy and am soon (when I get my arse in gear) to give up and fit the ECU and bodies I've acquired 2nd hand. ECU is not a low budget item.

 

The advantage of an Mi is that you get 160bhp running a stock ECU and state of tune making it much easier to look after and you can tune further later once you get the bug.

 

I went in initially only wanting a bit of power but would not do that again, you really appreciate stock engine tuning once you start making it non-stock! Seems to me you should only start tuning if you are ready to keep spending until it is right and you may as well do it full on as try to do it a little. Once you have a programmable ECU you may as well have fitted a hot cam, etc.

 

Rob

[roland rat 11]

Why don't you start with the higher compression engine to begin with ?

alot of hassle for a supposed 8bhp tbh and the engine in my car has been weel looked after and comes with fsh.i think i may be forced down the mi route as tuning the 8v seems expensive .also i wanted to retain the 8v block as i plan to trackday my car and fear the dreaded 'oil surge' problems that seem to happen to mi's.

Edited August 31, 2006 by roland rat

[smckeown 1]

yeah mi16 is the way to go always unless race regs don't allow. An mi16 with an mi16 gearbox will transform a 205 into a little moster. They really are amazing, if you haven't experienced it then get a ride in one.

[Dom9 2]

£1000 budget and 150bhp...

 

1). Magnex manifold and exhaust

2). XU10J2 head (for the big valves)

3). Skim to at least 10.5:1 maybe 11:1 if you get 3rd party ignition/injection

4). 3 angle valve seats and modified valves

5). Tidied up inlet and exhaust ports

6). Catcam 279° cam and vernier pulley

7). Standard XU9 inlet manifold, port matched to XU10 head

8). IF you can get it into the budget, either a KMS ignition only ECU and standard injection, or, possibly preferably, get a M3.1 from the scrappy and have the ignition and injection remapped to suit.

 

You already have the Magnex... XU10 head should be around £50-£100, skim, seats and valves should be less than £200 (talk to Matt at QEP for a price), the tidying up of the ports and manifold matching is fairly easy and again Matt could do it, the Catcam is what £150 and maybe try to get a 2nd hand pulley or use a diesel vernier pulley for £35 or whatever... Then the ECU and ignition bits and pieces should be less than £100 from the scrappy although you will need the trigger wheel on the flywheel...

 

The hidden cost may be in the mapping as most people seem to want to go to Wayne at Chipwizards who charges something like £400, but I think I read in a recent thread that someone found somewhere cheaper, so it may be worth looking into.

 

I defy anyone to explain why an XU9 8v, mildly ported XU10J2 head, running the 279° Catcam, with the correct CR, with an injection/ignition system mapped to suit won't produce in the order of 150bhp... We know that in theory the inlet manifold and exhaust should be good for over 160bhp and we know that the cam is good for that sort of power as Blackscooby (if I remember correctly) has seen it... So you ought to be able to at least get close.

 

If you add up the costs there... I think the XU10J2 head I built cost me something like £500 to the spec above (I did some work myself and got a cheap head etc), which means that you would need £100 for gaskets and bits then £400 to sort the ECU, which doesn't sound wildly out of the ballpark!

 

Give it a go - Would be interesting to know! DEFINITELY give Matt at QEP a call as he probably has an XU10J2 head on the shelf and may be able to give you an all in price for a fully built head with the 279° cam and you can see what's left over to sort the ECU. If you are good with the spanners though, and know a friendly scrappy, I reckon you could squeeze in around a grand!

[roland rat 11]

being handy with the spanners i aint but my cousins an mot tester and my mate has worked for vauxhall as a technichan for the last 6 years and rebuilt/restored and repaired various amounts of cars!forgot to mention that i have a pre cat head with a kent cam and veiner pulley already in my possesion.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

You could easily turbocharge it for £1k - no problem.

 

You could easily turbocharge it for £1k - no problem.

[sonofsam 5]

So true he said it twice lol

 

2.0l 8v T. engine will only cost you £350 max

 

150 out of the box so to speak

[Dom9 2]

Well, you could probably get an Mi16 bought and installed for around £1k...

 

Horses for courses really.... Depends if you want to be different or not...

 

The fact that you already have the vernier is good, but the Kent Cam is likely to be the pointless fast road cam (as that seems to be the most popular choice) but you might be lucky and have something fruitier...

 

If not, eBay the cam for a few quid or the whole head (minus the pulley) and that would add to your budget!

[roland rat 11]

Well, you could probably get an Mi16 bought and installed for around £1k...

 

Horses for courses really.... Depends if you want to be different or not...

 

The fact that you already have the vernier is good, but the Kent Cam is likely to be the pointless fast road cam (as that seems to be the most popular choice) but you might be lucky and have something fruitier...

 

If not, eBay the cam for a few quid or the whole head (minus the pulley) and that would add to your budget!

i want to be different !!!! i really like the way an 8v drives and you dont see many mooded 8v's going round.so the kent cams a bit of a joke then?2.0 8v turbos cheap when you buy the engine put it seems quite a squezze under the bonnet and i bet its a pain in the arse to wire up and running tidy.i cant be without the car for long peroids of time as its my everyday driver.would try and slot a gti6/xsara vts engine in but thats also a lot of fabrication so its an 8v for me.

[welshpug 1,657]

correct me if i'm wrong here guys but doesnt the catted engine run Motronic with a lambda sensor anyway? and its a Re-mappable ecu as well?

 

So it might not have a dizzy right?

 

I'd say 150 is easily obtainable on the std intake, as it isnt that poorly designed.

 

If youre going to go the XU10 head route you might as well stick the Mi head on there but you will have the oil starvation/pooling problem (though it seems relatively simple to sort)

 

stick with 8 valves.

[roland rat 11]

correct me if i'm wrong here guys but doesnt the catted engine run Motronic with a lambda sensor anyway? and its a Re-mappable ecu as well?

 

So it might not have a dizzy right?

 

stick with 8 valves.

it does have a dizzy but thats not an issue to me.totally agree on sticking with 8v's

[kyepan 291]

what do you want to do with the car after its got it's 150bhp?

 

you could probably do the MI16 alot cheaper than 1k. there was one for sale for 200 including loom and ecu on here today.

 

for the turbo boys, whats the power delivery like compared to the 8v and an mi16?

[welshpug 1,657]

turbo -

 

burbllllle

 

wooossssshhhhhhh

 

eeeeeekk! ffooooook!!!!!

 

ptshhhh

 

 

Mi16 -

 

brummmmmmmmmm

 

wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

oh 75000rpm, change gear!

[roland rat 11]

what do you want to do with the car after its got it's 150bhp?

 

you could probably do the MI16 alot cheaper than 1k. there was one for sale for 200 including loom and ecu on here today.

 

for the turbo boys, whats the power delivery like compared to the 8v and an mi16?

ill be quite happy with 150bhp in a stripped out 205.dont want an mi as im no good with electrics and dont fancy oil surge problems and also there arent many tidy blocks left.turbo would be nice but theres alot of agrro fitting it and getting it running right.ive spend money doing the brakes suspension and others bits to the car so now im turning my attention to the engine.im sure a 150bhp 1.9 lump fitted to an mi gearbox will make an interesting car

[niklas 1]

I fully agree with Sean, 205 MI16 is a little monster!!

[roland rat 11]

I fully agree with Sean, 205 MI16 is a little monster!!

i understand that its the right thing to do but i just fancy being a little different!surely someone has reached the 150bhp figure with an 8v for not silly money?

[Jonmurgie 2]

Of course, but not starting with the wanky low-comp motor you have... if you do want to go 8v then get a normal earlier spec motor and start there