Lsd's......

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

People slate the RS Focus because that, but they clearly don't understand the benefit of a diff.

 

 

I wasnt slating the RS Focus as I think its a fantastic car and much better than that new ST piece of s*it. I just meant I didnt think much of the diff and handling that it didnt feel hurrendously violent to me right on the limit...

 

Maxi

[TaffyTim 6]

I have a quaife on mine and it makes so much difference i find even pulling away i have to rev to over 4k for wheels to spin in the wet, and cornering you can put your foot down without leaving smoke behind.

The pulling from side to side isnt to bad and feels like std diff when driving normal

 

 

I agree with Craig on all points. My Mi has a Quafie ATB LSD and it makes the car a joy to drive. I have not driven the Mi with out it but comparing it to my old 8 valer its very hard to get wheel spin and where the 8 valver used to be a nightmare to take corners at 100mph (of course not our british motorways but a better place with higher speed limits) but the Mi just glides through them.

 

I was on the Quaife site last week and they were contradicting what people on here are saying about straight line improvements. They stated that the ATB LSD's will actually help your drag stip experience. From what i feel in my car i would think that they are right as take off wheel spin is greatly reduced. I think i get more spin changing upto 2nd than 1st gear start off spin.

 

I would say its money well spent and i wouldnt get rid of mine for anything. But you do have a hell of alot more power than me so contact RobSBC as suggested to see what he thinks.

[feb 47]

Only thing to be away of is.. You have more grip true, but when you exeed that grip you have to be careful.

 

Butler, you mean when the outer wheel starts to spin too from over-enthusiasm?

[smckeown 1]

i have compared both quaife and gripper for standing starts / 0-60 runs and the gripper reduces wheel spin significantly in my experience. It might also have been a contributory factor that the first gear ratio was lower when i had the quaife box

[205wrc 16]

What about KAAZ lsd's then?

 

A chap that builds gearboxes in West Wales swears by them. Much better quality than Quaife and Tran-x and not as snatchy under hard acceleration.

 

AND CHEAPER !!!!!

[Butler 0]

I wasnt slating the RS Focus as I think its a fantastic car and much better than that new ST piece of s*it. I just meant I didnt think much of the diff and handling that it didnt feel hurrendously violent to me right on the limit...

 

Maxi

 

 

Sorry, I know you weren't. I meant the general world of car jornalists.

 

Butler, you mean when the outer wheel starts to spin too from over-enthusiasm?

 

Thats the one.

[boombang 2]

What about KAAZ lsd's then?

 

A chap that builds gearboxes in West Wales swears by them. Much better quality than Quaife and Tran-x and not as snatchy under hard acceleration.

 

AND CHEAPER !!!!!

 

Have you seen a or driven with a Quaife? Build quality is spot on and they aren't snatchy at all IMHO.

 

Mate has a plate diff in his rallycar and that is snatchy, where as I reckon a Quaife is more user friendly than anything else out there.

 

Ultimate reason for a Quaife is its fit and forget. Yeah we've seen the downsides but to be perfectly honest 99.99% of people would put one in the box and never think about it again.

 

I am using on (like many) others in my rallycar purely because of that. I may lose a few seconds over a plate type diff but its gentle on drive components, doesn't need any servicing, and the main reason for fitting is it doesn't explode like the standard diff.

[driversdomainuk 8]

How often and what needs to be done when servicing a plate type diff..?

[SPGTi 2]

When I was looking for a diff to use in my Road Rally car after speaking to numerous people (mainly in the rally car preperation world) I came to these conclusions.

 

Quaife ATB - fit and forget OK for road and track use (some people described it as a "sometimes" dif as sometimes they work sometimes it is like driving with an open diff esp. in the forest)

 

Plate diff -ie trans x, etc needs more maintenance, really needs power steering esp. when drivng for hours as in Road rallying. Best diff for forest stages as helps with "ditch hooking" and very consistent but does take time to get use to.

 

Kaaz dif - seems to be a good compromise between the ATB and plate. Also fit and forgetish but can have the ramp angles changed for different conditions like a plate diff. Can be used OK without power steering more snatchy than a pure ATB but not as bad as a full plate dif. Lots of 205 rally cars are now using these instead of the ATB type.

 

From this for road rallying I was going to go with the Kaaz dif as it ticked all the boxes as on the roads it would be fairly unobstrusive like an ATB but on the rough stuff would be better suited than an ATB. A plate diff was ruled out because I don't have power steering and as most of the routes are on tarmac I felt it would be too snatchy and tiring.

 

So what do I actually use ? Well I got offered a rebuilt box complete with Quaife that had covered 0 miles with the exact gear ratios and final drive I wanted for a price I couldn't refuse. I have done 2 events with the Quaife and have been pleased with the performance but the true test will be in the winter when the whites start getting slippier.

 

Steve

[smckeown 1]

i have compared both quaife and gripper for standing starts / 0-60 runs and the gripper reduces wheel spin significantly in my experience. It might also have been a contributory factor that the first gear ratio was lower when i had the quaife box

 

Woops I mean KAAZ not Gripper. KAAZ are defo fine for non-PAS, doesnt seem to snatch any more than a quaife

[philfingers 5]

My experience of running a Tran X with 1.9 ratios and 4.44CWP in a 309 8v road rally car.

 

Tran X had gone around 15 events and 10k miles when I pulled it out for inspection, mic'd up the plates had almost no wear at all. The Tran X is snatchy, for road rallies you need PAS. I did one event without PAS and felt like I'd done a round with Tyson, yes it snatches that much.

What ever diff you use if you give enough throttle (and you have the power) to brake traction with both wheels they will spin. The best diff in the world won't stop that, it's physics! The quaiffes are more subtle, ultimately for road use it's probably a better option, smooth and refined. The Tran X is better tho for out and out traction.

One thing you should be aware of is how much better the car is under braking with a diff, whilst it helps stops spin on acceleration it also stops locking under braking. On a road rally on muddy lanes with an open diff (say one wheel on mud, other on tarmac) under braking it's easy to lock one wheel. An LSD will much reduce this, massively improving braking.

If your car with a diff is pulling all over the road under accel and braking (without getting close to spinning) then there's something wrong. LSDs will highlight any thing worng in your setup, tracking out or tyres out side to side by a few PSI will show up noticeably.

The TranX can be set up for tarmac or gravel. Don't get greedy as I did, using gravel settings on the road is entertaining. The axle is almost locked under accel or braking, turning in is very difficult, it makes the car want to go straight on! On the gravel remember the cars are sideways a lot!

TranX diffs are noisy, the clunk and rattle like you wouldn't believe, driving in the street turning a corner, the make so much noise people turn and stare. Mine is dead quiet when it's cold but after 5, 10 miles of gentle road use the juddering starts.

Lastly don't use an LSD oil in a FWD box, I'm using Comma SX which is a full or semi Syn. You can chnage the diff in a 309 in situ, tricky tho!

[driversdomainuk 8]

"make so much noise people turn and stare"

 

Is this just common on TranX or any type of plate diff..?

[16v205 9]

TranX diffs are noisy, the clunk and rattle like you wouldn't believe, driving in the street turning a corner, the make so much noise people turn and stare. Mine is dead quiet when it's cold but after 5, 10 miles of gentle road use the juddering starts.

 

Ive got a tran-x diff and as you say it is a little snatchy, im using it on the roads and trackdays with a 2.4 turn quick rack without pas.

 

Mine is silent though? No knocking and banging that ive heard about and certainly no juddering. Apart from the odd snatch you wouldnt notice its there?

 

Rich

[dazEmad 0]

After the curborough event i really can understand the need of lsd, with such a short and twitchy track in 2nd most of the time it was like a constant wheelspin all the way round. The front left tyre really cooked and i looked on the more powerfull 205's with lsd and they were fine, i guess in the long run too with not going threw as many tyres it could start paying off for itself