Bigger Intercooler = Better?

[Bam 0]

hi folks,

 

one question...

bigger intercooler = better?

 

i'm not sure, that an bigger intercooler (dimension) has more efficence than a little intercooler (?)

would be fitted at same place (front of my 309 turbo)

 

do you think a intercooler with more volume is better than an bigger intercooler?

example:

 

intercooler from a porsche:

Core 440x140x125

Totaal 550x140x125

volume= 7,7L

 

intercooler from a volvo:

Core 466x430x28

Totaal 740x440x60

volume=5,61L

 

wich would be better?

regards mik

[bales 1]

I think it depends really on what you want out of the car, a bigger intercooler will be able to keep the air cooler which will gain a bit more power, however the main reason is that you could run higher boost pressures whilst keeping everything cool.

 

Though the main downside is really that the bigger the intercooler the more losses you get i.e pressure drop and also the more lag as the air has to physically travel further.

 

The physical size also isn't always the most important bit it is the cross-section of the heat exchanger and the type of core that it uses that can effect the efficiency greatly.

 

If you only want a set power level then using the smallest intercooler that provides that amount of cooling is going to be the most efficient, also consider using a chargecooler as they are very effcient especially in terms of size and lag, they are basically an air-water-air heat exchanger.

 

Alex

Edited August 25, 2006 by bales

[sonofsam 5]

Hi Mik

 

I had to make this decision a while back.Had gone for a very big intercooler to start with.

As i beleived bigger was always better when it comes to IC's

Too big infact after doing some reading and research.

It would of created to much lag whilst not being overly benificial to temperatures and performance.

 

Also some good reading here, very informative http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolers...tm#Last%20words

 

Plenty of info on here too concerning what intercoolers people are using.

 

I have now gone for a Toyota MR2 front mounted intercooler wich is good for 220hp

You are lucky in the respect there is loads more room up front on a 309

 

Hope you find the perfect one.Was a very expensive lesson for me in trial and error to get a good fit.

 

Sam.

[kyepan 291]

like bales said, some core's have very ineficient flow, also the shape of the end tanks is critical to efficiency. That and the shape of the pipe run.

 

 

this is a good read, It focused on a few considerations, like how much boost cause that is proportional to heat. The volume and velocity of the air entering the intercooler.. then it looked at they way intercoolers slow down the air and let it cool.. i'll have a dig and see if i can find it.

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/techcooler.htm some helpfull info on building one and the associated piping

 

http://a.raczynski.home.comcast.net/...lertestlab.pdfa more techy doc that might help you decide on your pipe run, and if you look at the end tank design on the pulsar gti-r's intercooler you will notice it looks like the ideal design on this guy's thesis..

 

Compare this to some of the aftermarket cooler end tanks and you might think twice about them.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Most OE IC are pretty ineffecient. If you have the bucks, get a custom one made my Pace, Forge etc. However, it really does depend upon how much boost you run and how much power you want.

 

Use the largest one that you can afford and which fits the easiest. Use a couple of boost guages to measure the pressure drop and also an intake temp gauge to ascertain how effecient it is. Then you can decide whether it's suitable for your application.

[pee vee 1]

If you dont have problems with your charge temps at the mo

then you Probably wont notice much difference in having the bigger cooler anyway.

 

check that you have a problem before you spend a wedge on it mate.

 

you can buy ACT gauges quite cheap, far cheaper than a custom cooler!

Edited August 25, 2006 by pee vee

[kyepan 291]

position seemed more critical on the pulsars, it was top mounted over the rocker cover, and nick named the Interwarmer when front mounted the torque usually increased 15 ish foot pounds nicely across the rev range, but people just usually went for larger pace etc intercoolers.

[inferno 1]

when i turbod my 309, i fitted a desel 205 rad to the uprights where the cowling sits, by welding brackets on the rad and bolting in position. this allows enough clearance to run somthing like a rs500 style intercooler, but slightly smaller dimensions. or a standard cossie 4x4 ic which i was well impressed with in my citroen zx. I was intending to fit a fan inside the engine bay, but u could use a shorter IC and a fan on the outside... plenty of room upfront for a large cooler, without having to increase the lenth of induction , and with significantly fewer sharp lag inducing bends.

 

i would say the rs500 style ic would be the best option purely for pipe positions, size wise its upto you. on ebay they will charge from 70-270!

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

If you are using a Turbo Technics style kit, the boost pipe runs under the sump and round to the throttle body so you can use intercoolers with an exit at each end. if you use a XU10J2TE (406/XM/Xantia) engine, then the boost pipe comes over the top with the throttle body in the centre of the engine, so an intercooler with entry and exits pointing towards the engine at the top would be better. The more pipes you have the more cost and the more lag and the more places to leak and less space in the engine!!

 

Big intercoolers tend to be for big turbos that make hotter air / more boost. remember some cars don't even have intercoolers (like the 205 STDT!)

[kyepan 291]

has anyone got a pic of the tt pipe run?

[pee vee 1]

Also, this might be going off track Slightly.

but looking at what has been written above

about some cars not using coolers.

 

Some specialist 1/4 mile cars Dont use intercoolers.. the quickest 1/4mile

scooby in the country at the mo does not have one. (pretty sure)

 

Also., RS500 intercooler is overkill unless you are above 340-ish bhp

they are turely MASSIVE coolers!!!

(a bit bigger than the radiator, and 2 or 3 times thicker!! )

Edited August 26, 2006 by pee vee

[Mandic 0]

Some specialist 1/4 mile cars Dont use intercoolers.. the quickest 1/4mile

scooby in the country at the mo does not have one. (pretty sure)

 

Is he running on methanol? If so, here Your answer why.

 

Cheers

 

Ziga

[TEKNOPUG 3]

has anyone got a pic of the tt pipe run?

 

 

clickety-click

[inferno 1]

i only suggested rs500 style for the shortness of pipe work and eas of fit as ive already done this and tried several other ways too, this being the best IMO. i used a 4x4 cossie cooler with extended end caps in my zx turbo RGY and was very happy with it.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I saw a picture once of an RS500 I/C mounted on a 205 and it looked like someone had attached a household radiator to the front!! Also big intercoolers tend to get tatty very quickly as anything that hits the fins makes a mess and can possibly cause boost leaks.

[pugrallye 0]

For starters how big is your turbo?? if your running less than a 40 size its not worth hoofing great intercoolers, and as already mentioned, the core is not overly important its the flow characteristics of the end caps that make the difference, like audi extract 240 odd brake from just using two well placed small coolers as std.

And the quickest 1/4 mile times are run by cars without intercollers as they run on a methanol/petrol mix which cools the intake temp, they use petrol in fact to raise the temp a bit as you find methanol tends to overcool ahem!

[Bam 0]

hi,

 

wow -lot of response, pretty good .

but i have forget to give you some infos .

 

engine:

xu10j2te (cit xm)

garret 2560 maxairflow ~330hp

custom piping (short)

custom 1.9 gti inlet manifold (will try to fitt gti-6 tb diameter ~70mm)

custom exhaust manifold

custom downpipe 2,5"

will use boost (drivilibity) 0.8-0.9 and in overboost >1bar (dont know 1.1-1.2) -dont know wich temps i will exhaust temp etc get with this pressure.

 

has anyone a picture of "rs500" style?dont know what this means.

the cossie looks like the porsche intercooler...hm...porsche has an stage 1 kit. 18% more flow than stock.

but i'm not sure...whats better...big coolingplate or volume...

with stock engine i use a renault 5 intercooler, very tiny -dont have messured inlettemps.

 

miklós

[sonofsam 5]

 

RS500 intercooler!

 

Your not running huge boost so there's no real need for a monster like that IMO.

[pee vee 1]

the little silver box in the front is an oil cooler

but the massive 500 cooler is clearly shown! lol

 

 

RS500 Intercooler in a WRC style Esc cos

if you can wedge it in the front of a 205 then fair play to start with!

lol Also, expect to run higher water temps if you fit

this type of cooler. i know the cossies do due to less air flow to the radiator.

 

 

EDIT: Doh! beaten to it while trying to find a pic to show how overkill they are! lol

Edited August 28, 2006 by pee vee

[Bam 0]

@both thanks

 

ehm....yeah...thats big

 

hm...but i think the piping will be long, i don't like that. i doesn't see the inlet/outlet ports- where they are?

on the side or frontal? <- thats would be perfect.

 

miklós

EDIT: other pic -think it would be perfect, now i'm know: if they fitts an 205, also a 309

Edited August 28, 2006 by Bam

[Ryan 99]

Also, this might be going off track Slightly.

Some specialist 1/4 mile cars Dont use intercoolers.. the quickest 1/4mile

scooby in the country at the mo does not have one. (pretty sure)

 

I guess the idea behind not using one on a drag car is that it's not worth the extra weight for the <10 seconds worth of cooling it provides.

 

Intercoolers generally act more like heatsinks than proper air coolers anyway. There was a good article on autospeed.com.au, I'll try and find it...

[Bam 0]

have found other nice cooler, same measures

rx-7 intercooler