c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 14, 2006 On my way back from a "check of the conditions on the local back roads" My car started juddering at idle and when i accelerated it felt like i was in 4th instead of 2nd. It almost sounded as if it was running on 3 cylinders. There was smoke pouring out the exhaust when i accelerated and a slow feed of smoke at idle. I also noticed that the oil temp guage was sitting at the first notch and increased like a rev counter when the pedal was pressed. When i had a look under the bonnet, the coolant expansion bottle was hissing and had leaked some brown looking liquid. Too hot to try and take off at the mo but will look again later. Any ideas? thanks, Craig Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saveloy 8 Posted August 14, 2006 Head gasket failure. The hissing is pressure exiting through the cooling system. And the brown liquid is oil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
methebmxer 0 Posted August 14, 2006 Yep Id say saveloy was spot on with this one. Thats exactly what happened when mine went. Did you get steam coming from under the bonnet?, You might have mistaken it for smoke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 14, 2006 No steam from under the bonnet. I might as well get the head skimmed now i suppose. Is it safe to gently drive the car to the garage? I take it it's just a new gasket and bolts that i need to replace? the Cambelt, water pump and alternator belt were just changed a month ago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
saveloy 8 Posted August 14, 2006 No. I would not chance even starting it now. You have mixed oil and water and you don't want to risk damaging bearings,etc. The head will doubtless need to be skimmed as part of a re-build. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 14, 2006 Oh god! this is turning into a nightmare! How much can i expect this to cost me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim21070 2 Posted August 14, 2006 Oh god! this is turning into a nightmare! How much can i expect this to cost me? Budget for a gasket set, head bolts, cambelt, water pump, exhaust clamp set, cost of the head skim, any remedial work to the head and a good 5 hours of labour assuming all goes smoothly. Also, the root cause of the failure needs to be found and this is likely to be the radiator or the cooling fans. Head gaskets rarely fail for no reason. Done by a garage, I see little change from £500. Can you attempt it yourself? Works out a lot cheaper then but the bits will still set you back getting on for £200 at a rough guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) I could give it a go myself but i'd be totally reliant on advice from you guys! The cambelt, tensioner and water pump were changed a month ago, will they need doing again!?! Oh, and where is best to buy the parts? Edited August 14, 2006 by c_r_thomson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim21070 2 Posted August 14, 2006 I could give it a go myself but i'd be totally reliant on advice from you guys! The cambelt, tensioner and water pump were changed a month ago, will they need doing again!?! The cambelt I'd replace for peace of mind but the tensioner and water pump will be fine. Have a search around this forum. There is loads on doing head gaskets. Read well, study, ensure you have the tools and it's not a difficult job at all. The trickiest bits are getting the exhaust downpipe off the manifold if it's been there a long time and undoing the head bolts. Arm yourself with a good T55 torx bit and a big breaker bar and you'll be fine. Pumaracing has some very, very good advice on his website for removing tight bolts and also on replacing the head gasket. No worries on advice, we've all been there. Hands up all those who have NOT done a head gasket. Thought so, all hands firmly down! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bales 1 Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) The exact thing happened to me! I was driving home after getting the car back after it had been off the road for four weeks having the rear suspension done. I accelerated out of a corner and all of a sudden it started missing and I looked in my rear view mirror and there was smoke everywhere. I was gutted initially as I though that my engine was knackered but like yours the smoke was just water in the exhaust. I made sure that didn't run it all after that though even though it would idle. It will be pretty expensive if you take it too a garage I would think at least £500-600. I did mine myself with my dad but it was a big job and I wouldn;t have been able to do it on my own. It took us three nights to take the head off and then three nights to get it back on again, however it was the first time we had taken the engine apart so it might be a bit quicker if you have done it before. However unless you are really good with engines it is a pretty big job. In terms of cost it set me back £80 in total for the head gasket set, new head bolts and for the skim and that was it. It wasn't expensive but it did take a lot of time to do and if its your daily driver not really easy to do if you need your car. Oh and if you do do it yourself ignore the head bolt torque settings from the Haynes manual as they are stupidly high. Alex Edited to add, mine failed because the previous owner who changed the gasket didn't skim the head even though he assured us it was flat and he had checked it - it wasnt, it was warped which caused the head gasket to break. Edited August 14, 2006 by bales Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arry 0 Posted August 14, 2006 ooo nasty Deffo got the hallmarks of a HG failure. Assume the smoke is white? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 14, 2006 Yeah, smoke was white. I'm going to give it a go on my own I'll start looking for the parts now and search for the bits i need. Will let you know how it goes and thanks for all your input Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arry 0 Posted August 14, 2006 It doesn't look too bad to do mate, wish you the best Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim21070 2 Posted August 14, 2006 Oh and if you do do it yourself ignore the head bolt torque settings from the Haynes manual as they are stupidly high. Alex Yes, arn't they just. Trying to get 300 degrees is scary and not at all necessary with good stretch bolts, even when done in two "bites" of 150 degrees. Pumaracing, IIRC, recommends that they be pulled up to 75 ft/lbs and all will be well. That seems inherently reasonable to me and I'm very willing to trust a person who builds racing engines for a living! The advantage of this is that firstly they are easy to remove again and secondly, they can be re-used. The most important thing is to have the block threads very clean and oiled so that the bolts will screw in all the way finger-tight. An old head bolt with longditudinal saw-cuts in it (so that it looks like a tap) makes an excellent thread cleaner. A tip when removing the old ones is to use a big breaker-bar and hold very steady pressure on the bolt. Because it is a stretch bolt, you'll feel it stretch as you rotate it. It will feel a bit like you're trying to unscrew a rubber bolt! Be careful not to overstretch it at this stage and snap it. Allow it to stretch a bit, hold the pressure on the breaker-bar and the threaded part of the bolt will generally "follow" around and undo. Do your best also to clean any debris and crud from the very bottom of the head bolts where they emerge from the block. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve@cornwall 100 Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) Yes, arn't they just. Trying to get 300 degrees is scary and not at all necessary with good stretch bolts, even when done in two "bites" of 150 degrees. Pumaracing, IIRC, recommends that they be pulled up to 75 ft/lbs and all will be well. That seems inherently reasonable to me and I'm very willing to trust a person who builds racing engines for a living! The advantage of this is that firstly they are easy to remove again and secondly, they can be re-used. The most important thing is to have the block threads very clean and oiled so that the bolts will screw in all the way finger-tight. An old head bolt with longditudinal saw-cuts in it (so that it looks like a tap) makes an excellent thread cleaner. A tip when removing the old ones is to use a big breaker-bar and hold very steady pressure on the bolt. Because it is a stretch bolt, you'll feel it stretch as you rotate it. It will feel a bit like you're trying to unscrew a rubber bolt! Be careful not to overstretch it at this stage and snap it. Allow it to stretch a bit, hold the pressure on the breaker-bar and the threaded part of the bolt will generally "follow" around and undo. Do your best also to clean any debris and crud from the very bottom of the head bolts where they emerge from the block. The machine shop that re-surfaced my head recommended 60ft/lbs plus 90 degrees- worked well, marking the head bolts with tipex!- total cost 2 yrs ago was £75 , including some stripping (cam and therm/ housing) that I could easily have done myself if I was thinking straight!.It was the first head gasket job I'd done in ten years and probably took about 6 hours. Amongst the most important things is making sure the cam timing is set correctly before stripping- take a photo of the position of the cam lobes with the crank locked before stripping. One of the few jobs I've found Haynes useful for. Be VERY careful to refit all the washers to the headbolt nearest the master cyl when re-assembling- or the bolt breaks into the waterpump housing and junks the block. It really is an easier job than you expect it to be so good luck! Edited August 14, 2006 by steve@cornwall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
24seven 104 Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) Same happened to my 1.6 to the guy I bought it off. I'm in the middle of fixing it, but am using it as an excuse to completely rebuild the engine, box and associated drivetrain, just because it can be done. Never even tried anything like this before, so it's a steep learning curve, and so far my Haynes has been pretty useless to me, because I'm rubbish at following instructions for things I don't know teh names of . Edited August 14, 2006 by 24Seven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henry 1.9GTi 36 Posted August 15, 2006 recently done the head gasket on mine. Just followed the haynes manual. Tricky bits r the engine mount on the cambelt side as you need to jack the engine up a little (alot) to get to the bolts. Also watch out for the brake fluid resivoir as it gets in the way of I think number 10 head bolt. I used peugeot bolts to be sure and turned them through 300 degrees. Just make sure you follow the order in the haynes manual and you should be fine. Also dont remove the dip stick when putting the head bk on! I did this coz it was flapping about and we had a heavy cylinder head in our hands, Couldnt get it bk in past the exhaust manifold. So tie it back beofre putting the head back Make sure you spend some time cleaning up the block surface and be careful not to dislodge the liners. I got DES developments to sort the head: skim and valve clearances. They can sort out courier for you as well so worth giving them a ring. good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) Ok, got it off this morning. No knuckles left but the head is off. Have a look what i found inside http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/c_r_...on/IMGP0783.jpg The gasket had holes and cracks all over it and one of the cylinders had a puddle of coolant in it! Gonna give the block a right good clean while the head is away. What stuff should i use to clean it? what should i avoid touching and can i clean the pistons? What about cleaning the seats of the valves cos they look messy too!?! I'm sending my injectors off to get cleaned and i'll be fitting new plugs and leads. I might aswell do as much as i can while the car is in bits. Any other suggestions? Already replaced the mounts. *edited due to image size* Edited August 27, 2006 by richard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyepan 291 Posted August 27, 2006 fair play mate, half way there! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c_r_thomson 0 Posted August 28, 2006 That's the head away for a port, polish and of course a skim. Gonna remove the injectors and get them sent away for a clean (they look like they need it) Other things on my list :- Clean up my garage and put my tools somewhere (that's when i'll find the random bolts etc.) Clean up the engine block and rest of engine bay Finish fitting the engine mounts i got from BakerBM Decide on whether to just decoke my TB or get a bigger one (Don't know where from though!?!) Got a K+N, new sparkies and new leads all waiting to go in! New coolant and oil New timing belt Apart from that it's all body work. Repair the car long key scratch down the drivers side and fit my new bonnet Got my work cut out for me when this head comes back Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BrainFluid Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Petrol is best for cleaning the block face in my opinion. Use a good straight edged metal or wood scraper and some corse wet & dry, a tin with some petrol in is good, using a brush to apply. Block up the oil holes but dont bother with the coolant holes. When you have all the crap off, start going over the face with just a cloth and petrol. First block I cleaned I used wd40 and it took forever, 2nd time I use petrol, it was amazing how much quicker it was! EDIT: Forgot to mention, you will end up getting crap down the bores, best to keep on cleeaning them as you go and when your satisfied the block face is clean enough (nice and shiney as you can get it) clean the bore walls with blue thickish paper (know the stuff I mean?) again with some petrol, untill, when you wipe the bore there is no dirt at all left on the paper (if you want to be tottaly anal about it it could take you a loooong time ) Edited August 28, 2006 by BrainFluid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
