How 'far' Out Is One Tooth Out On The Cambelt?

[Guest rick03054]

If the cambelt is one tooth out how far round are the timing holes? Would it be as far as one of the side holes on the crank pulley or is it just a little bit?

 

I put the belt on but I could turn the long run of the belt about 180 degrees with the tensioner done up (spring type). To get it tight enough I'd have to turn the crank loads which misaligned the holes. So I thought I must be a tooth out, when I put the belt round one tooth the holes were a mile out. The little hole that comes before the big timing hole on the pulley lined up with the hole in the block.

 

Oh, and I did a silly thing I put locktite on the crank bolt and did it up, so I'm having to do this just by moving the belt on the cam pulley.

 

The only way I can see to get it right is to put the dowel in the cam pulley then stand on a bar on the crank bolt to bring it round enough so it all lines up and tightens the belt. I'm not keen on that idea though

 

I'm wondering now if I have the 114 tooth belt instead of 113, What effect would that have? I did count them but with that many little teeth if you expect 113 you probably count 113

 

Hopefully you can understand some of that, Unless it's something glaringly obvious I'm missing, which it probably is. Please, somebody point out my mistake.

[pug309twin40s 1]

the belt should have written on it how many teeth it has.

 

done lock the camshaft pulley to try and loosen the crank pulley bolt. your just break the bit of the cyl head behind the pulley as its not that strong where the timing hole is.

 

 

easiest to undo the crank pulley is to jam the flywheel with a screwdriver.

 

 

if the belt has the white timing lines on it you can line them up with the marks on the pulleys themselves try that way.

[Guest rick03054]

I used the lines to begin with, but the belt was REALLY slack. Just assumed I had got it wrong somehow...

 

I didn't mean get the crank bolt out by jamming the cam pulley, it was just so I could get the crank pulley into line, tighten the long run of the belt, but not just turn the whole engine over.

 

I think I'll have to get creative to get that crank bolt out, it's in there for keeps!

 

bollocks!

[inferno 1]

an air gun or sumbody applying the brakes and the car in 4th as u undo the crank bolt should undo it.cant u use the correct timing pins or suitable bolts to hold crank and cam in place while u run the belt?id say 90degrees on the long run when tensioned is ok,180is v slack

[Guest rick03054]

I've ordered a flywheel locking tool so I'm waiting for it to arrive, I'll hopefully get the crank bolt out then, I think I may have overdone it on the licktite as well, screwdrivers just pop out when you have to put that much force into them. I would have to get someone to come to me with a gun which is a bit of a nightmare, cant move the car really.

 

I really can't understand why I'm having this problem... And my toilet just broke, won't stop flowing water and it's got some weird cistern, not a ball cock. What a rubbish Friday night!!

[Guest ashnicholls]

How does which belt you have affect the timing?

 

I thought it only affected the slack, ie different tensioners?

 

Or are the marks different on the two types of belts?

[Alastairh 47]

If you had the 114 belt youd know, the belt and the tensioner would be rubbing (been there).

 

How good is your spring?

[Guest rick03054]

How does which belt you have affect the timing?

 

I thought it only affected the slack, ie different tensioners?

 

Or are the marks different on the two types of belts?

 

When I thought about it I came to the conclusion it would affect the tension, and since I used the marks and the long run was slack I thought maybe the extra tooth was on that side.

 

If you had the 114 belt youd know, the belt and the tensioner would be rubbing (been there).

 

How good is your spring?

 

What do you mean they'd be rubbing, the teeth rub the spring holder bit?

 

Spring may be rubbish, but if the holes are dowelled surely it doesn't affect the long run much anyway?

 

I'm going out to try again today, if I cant make it work I'm just going to have to wait for this flywheel locker to arrive and persuade the crank bolt out.

 

Cheers for the help guys, just hope I'm not doing something terminally stupid!

[ablister 31]

why not just count the teeth again?

[Guest rick03054]

Without the flywheel jammer I can't get the pulley off so can't get the belt off.

[Guest rick03054]

Right, I've got it to the stage now that it's timed up fine, I can turn the engine over however many times I like and the holes still line up, but I can turn the belt through 180 degrees, even if I pull hard on the other side to make it like the tensioners far tighter the long run is basically unchanged.

 

If I move the belt one tooth to the side the holes dont line up, with the cam locked the top hole in the pic below is lined up with the hole behind. And it would be near impossible to pull the crank round that far to line it up right.

 

 

I'm stumped, I think I'll just have to wait for the flywheel tool to arrive and get the crank pulley off, count the teeth again and go from there. It's probably gonna be a hairy nightmare getting the thing off, LOADS of locktite went on it.

 

I didn't notice anything strange when I took the old one off, would be silly to have a head skimmed enough to need a smaller belt on a TT, that would negate the lowered compression, I'll count the teeth on the old belt again to be sure.

[Guest CB-Dave]

from that picture, it looks like you're using the wrong hole to time the bottom pulley up - you should be using the middle one, not the top one...

 

also, it shouldn't be too hard to break the loctite with a bit of force, it's really only there to stop things vibrating loose.

 

a decent heavy screwdriver in the flywheel teeth, braced against the block will stop the engine turning over, then jack it up fairly high, get the wheel off and use a 2ft breaker bar to undo the pulley bolt, rather than piss around with locking kits...

 

you have retensioned the tensioner haven't you? ie the slider is loose and the wheel is against the belt, and the front nuts are tightened?

 

if you have the slider tensioner, your belt should be 113 teeth, if you have an eccentric tensioner, it should be 114 teeth, if you can turn the engine over fine and still have it all time up ok afterwards, you have the right belt - I personally think that either it isn't fitted properly (ie taut on the long run and allowing the pump, tensioner and cam pulley to take up the slack) or the tensioner is faulty, maybe the spring is slack or something.

 

It's really not a hard job doing a cambelt!

 

another thought that's just occurred to me - you have put the belt on the right direction haven't you?

 

there'll be little arrows on it telling you the direction of rotation, if it's on backwards, then the white timing marks will be useless, because they're not equally opposed (as that's not how the belt times up), this would account for there being loads of slack on the long run with the marks being 'in'

[Guest rick03054]

from that picture, it looks like you're using the wrong hole to time the bottom pulley up - you should be using the middle one, not the top one...

 

with the cam locked the top hole in the pic below is lined up with the hole behind.

 

I know, that's my problem.

 

also, it shouldn't be too hard to break the loctite with a bit of force, it's really only there to stop things vibrating loose.

 

you have retensioned the tensioner haven't you? ie the slider is loose and the wheel is against the belt, and the front nuts are tightened?

 

Yup.

 

I personally think that either it isn't fitted properly (ie taut on the long run and allowing the pump, tensioner and cam pulley to take up the slack) or the tensioner is faulty, maybe the spring is slack or something.

 

Me too, I just can't work out why.

 

It's really not a hard job doing a cambelt!

 

I know, shut up!

 

another thought that's just occurred to me - you have put the belt on the right direction haven't you?

there'll be little arrows on it telling you the direction of rotation, if it's on backwards, then the white timing marks will be useless, because they're not equally opposed (as that's not how the belt times up), this would account for there being loads of slack on the long run with the marks being 'in'

 

Yeah, arrows pointing clockwise. But the marks are irrelevant now really, I've turned the engine. It's just getting the holes to line up AND have the right tension at the same time that I cant get.

Edited August 5, 2006 by rick03054

[Guest CB-Dave]

you can do a belt without referring to the marks too, just lock the bottom pulley (in the middle hole), lock the top pulley (using the only hole it has) and slap the belt over the two pulleys then weave it over the tensioner/pump assembly, you don't even have to take the bottom pulley off - just ignore the OE markings and make your own (ie mark the cam pulley with tippex and a chalk line on the belt, then the same with the crank pulley, both can be in arbitary positions, they're just there to make sure everything lines up)

 

tbh I reckon this could be sorted within 20 minutes, just line up the bottom pulley properly, lock it in the centre hole, pop the belt off the cam pulley and tensioner, but leave it on the bottom pulley (no choice really!), turn the cam pulley so it's in time, then slap the belt on again using the long side first - after that, make your own marks (as I put above) and it should be ready to go!

 

Without timing the bottom end properly, you're on a hiding to nothing unfortunately

[Guest rick03054]

I think you may have something with the worn spring idea. It neede a little push to get over this far:

 

So I've levered it over a bit (and believe it or not persuaded my mum to give me a hand and tighten the locknut as I did it! ) This helped a LOT! The holes line up fine after a couple of turns. I can still get just over 90 degrees twist in the belt, how precise is the 90 degree rule? And would you say that's with a lot of twisting?

 

Cheers for your help dave, as I said it's usually something daft I'm doing or thinking about too much.

 

Shut up and do it should be my new motto!

[Guest CB-Dave]

it shouldn't take much twisting, but as long as it doesn't go much more than 90 degrees then you'll be ok...

 

I'd get a new tensioner spring before long though!

[Guest rick03054]

Will the spring be having any effect at all just now with the nuts all done up?

[Alastairh 47]

Yeah, id get a new spring, there only pence from peugeot anyway, and you may even be lucky they will have them in stock.

 

Alastair

[Guest rick03054]

I seriously doubt that!

 

I'll get one ordered then, better to do it right.

[Gtautotech 1]

Will the engine run and valves not touch the piston if its only a tooth out, I've just done my belt and it doesnt sound right so going to check it again

 

if it was tooth out would it pink really badly too