Engine Mapped Today

[16v205 9]

Friday morning my engine was still on the garage floor in pieces after visiting QEP to double check the cam hitting spray bars issue.

Got the engine in over the weekend. Made a down pipe to fit the original system, fitted a mi16 style allow top engine mount to junk the heavy cast iron jobbie, fitted a 1.9 air oil cooler, and re-worked the wiring loom. All that took until Monday. So Yesterday started the morning working through a few obstacles like no gears, fitted the water hose's then tried to fire the car up for the first time.

 

Nothing - Bang - Pop -Bang - Nothing

 

Spent a few hours looking for the problem as it seemed the ignition was random. The fuel was igniting in the exhaust or the inlet manifold but never in the block. Started to get concerned the cam timing may be out as it appeared the coil packs were giving a strong spark. Turned out through trial and error the gti-6 coil packs wont work with a Emerald ecu as there are not enough ignition drivers and the coils cant be wired in pairs. Didnt find this out until 11pm last night when the car fired for the very first time on my old coil pack. Ran the engine for around 10mins in total to make sure nothing leaked then went to bed

 

Up this morning for the 360mile round trip to Emerald, Got there around 10:30 to be greeted with 2 damaged outer CV boots from the A-frame we towed the car with. Lesson learnt dont have the arms out so wide next time.

 

Mapping had started when Dave asked what exactly had I done to the engine, he said the light throttle loads he was mapping were spot on already. Things changed during the day until the final power run was taken. My new engine managed 211.1 BHP @ 7114 rpm & 161.6 lbft @ 6417 rpm

 

To say im happy is a understatement, im ecstatic. The car drives so well, theres no flat point below 4000rpm it just pulls in any gear. It now spins the wheels with a tran-x lsd fitted on gear change into third.

 

Ill post my rolling road graph later tonight once its scanned.

 

Cheers

Rich

[Jonmurgie 2]

Rock and roll.. that's some excellent results Can you just run through the spec of that engine other than the cam?

 

Cheers

Jon

[inferno 1]

did you get on the wheel figures? nice one on the 200+ also intrested in seeing the full spec

 

thats a fair bit of tourque too!

[Dino 3]

Nice result

 

Are you running a GTi6 lump or Mi16? (maybe thats a silly question given that you are running GTi6 coilpacks?)

[smckeown 1]

nail biting thriller that with a great ending

[Sam 4]

GTI6 engine looking at his sig!

 

Sounds a big mad about traction!!

[Alastairh 47]

good result.

 

Awaits seeing spec of this engine

[16v205 9]

Theres not really much of a engine spec to boast about.

 

Its a 47k mile gti-6 block stripped and checked. The head has not been skimmed so is running standard compression. I did spend a while just tidying up rough castings and 2 days with sore hands making sure the valves were lapped in properly. Compression is identical across all 4 cylinders.

 

Its fitted with a pair of Catcams, new springs and retainers. 45mm Jenvey tb's, 90mm trumpets, the original gti-6 exhaust manifold and a home made downpipe mated to a stainless steel exhaust. The downpipe alone took nearly a complete day to make as I wanted it as angle free as possible.

 

Rich

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Excellent results Rich, are we going to see it at Cadwell on Monday?

 

People are dropping like flies but it'd be nice to see some regulars there.

 

Graham.

[Sandy 191]

Good work!

[Mattsav 1]

:lol:

[Jonmurgie 2]

VERY nice results then from only a couple of bolt on bits... it's clear that TB's and Cams make it pretty easy to get 200+

[Anthony 1,003]

Very nice results, even more so if that's a standard engine internally!

 

Be interested to see the graphs and look forward to seeing the car on Monday at Cadwell

[petert 587]

It's a very tasty result. I was very interested to read the specs. of the cams, which of course take a lot of credit for the result. I assume from the lift @TDC figures you quoted in the other thread, that they're the 4903108?

 

I'd assumed they weren't very hot when the inlet has only 2mm (0.078") @ TDC. But then they take off with a whopping 11.95mm (0.470") full lift. Given they're only 236 deg. @ 1mm, they certainly open hard and fast, and work extremely well with std. internals and the TB's.

 

I'd also assume you still have a reasonably good idle?

[16v205 9]

Excellent results Rich, are we going to see it at Cadwell on Monday?

 

People are dropping like flies but it'd be nice to see some regulars there.

 

Graham.

 

Yeah mate ill be there. Got a little bit of work to do to the car and plan on swapping from drums to disks on the back but no reason why it wont be ready now.

 

 

I'd also assume you still have a reasonably good idle?

 

 

Spot on with the cam profile.

 

The idle is good, rock steady around 950rpm. Throttle is awesome aswell, the engine feels like a powerful 1.6 as its so revvy.

 

Rich

[16v205 9]

Back again, link to the rolling road graph HERE

 

Cheers

Rich

Edited July 26, 2006 by 16v205

[mfield 20]

Looks more like an engine bay ??

[Jonmurgie 2]

lol, it is!

 

[16v205 9]

Lol I know, just saw what I linked to. At least it was forum safe

 

Ive changed the link above but its HERE also

 

Rich

[Jonmurgie 2]

Nice... looks pretty smooth but what is the sharp spike at the end all about? That doesn't look right/normal to me and it's right at the end of the rev range... befoer that your making a nice 202ish... what did Dave have to say about that, if anything?

[James_R 3]

Looks like you get a good kick in the pants at 5k, odd that the torque dips so much then randomly spike just after 7k.

 

Still graphs mean nothing when you flogging the bejesus out of it

 

Oh any chance of a look at the ign map for it?

[Garry 1]

Nice results,

 

I will try and get near you a Cadwell to see what real world difference it makes, as I am toying with the idea of CAT cams/ KMS ECU / Bodies.

[petert 587]

It looks lean at 5250. There's probably some more torque to come if you iron out that lean patch.

[PumaRacing 2]

Nice... looks pretty smooth but what is the sharp spike at the end all about? That doesn't look right/normal to me and it's right at the end of the rev range... befoer that your making a nice 202ish... what did Dave have to say about that, if anything?

 

I've seen that same spike on a number of Emerald printouts. I don't know if it comes from the wheel bhp curve or the coastdown loss addback because he won't normally reveal those but of course the engine isn't really doing that. It's partly why I deduct 5% from Emerald power figures to get back to a realistic bhp number. Even that may not be enough.

 

Several years ago a group RR day was held there and the organiser downloaded all the data off the Emerald RR computer so he could collate it and do some graphs. That gave the wheel bhp figures as well so they got released onto the forum in question and made available as a spreadsheet file which I saved a copy of. A few of those power figures make interesting reading.

 

Rover K series engine, flywheel bhp 250, actual wheel bhp 187, trans loss 63

Rover K series engine, flywheel bhp 243, actual wheel bhp 180, trans loss 63

1.6 Ford Pinto engine, flywheel bhp 125, actual wheel bhp 77, trans loss 48

Rover K series engine, flywheel bhp 201, actual wheel bhp 127, trans loss 74

 

Here's the best ones

 

1.6 Ford Crossflow engine, flywheel bhp 130, actual wheel bhp 63, trans loss 67

 

You don't often see a transmission loss bigger than the power the engine is actually putting out.

 

Rover 1.4 K series engine, flywheel bhp 115, actual wheel bhp 59, trans loss 56

Vauxhall engine, unknown type, flywheel bhp 183, actual wheel bhp 113, trans loss 70

 

There's a bunch of other data but you get the gist. It actually looks a bit like those figures from Powerstation.

 

Anyway, this GTi-6 engine looks like a 190-200 bhp spec. TB's, short duration cam, non ported head. I'd also say about 77 ft lbs per litre going by the figures for Zetec engines I posted some time back so maybe 154 ft lbs total. A wheel bhp number would be nice then we can all see what's what. I'm sure Walker will reveal that if you call him. It's stored on his pc anyway. I'll guess 150 to 160.

[kman1600 0]

Hi,

 

Im always super sceptical of calculated flywheel BHP & Torque figures from a rolling road, there are so many variables that can affect the output are just not well controlled on a rolling road.

 

The objective of a rolling road session is to insure that your fuelling and ignition maps are optimised, whether your engine makes or doesnt make a particular target output was decided when you built the thing, not at the rolling road.

 

That said it human nature after spending your hard earned cash to want to see a big number, even if its just for bragging purposes. These guys are running a business and therefore have a vested interest in satisfying that need in the customers they get.

 

Tim