Mi16 Fly Wheel On 8v..........

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

A couple of questions mainly....

 

Do all Mi16 flywheels have the 60-2 trigger wheel pattern?

 

Is there any reason why I can't use the Mi16 flywheel on a 8v with 8v BE3 gearbox? If so do I have to use the Mi clutch or can I use the 8v clutch?

 

 

I basically I want the flywheel trigger as it would make a nicer install over the crank pully type. The engine itself will be a 'highly' tuned 8v with a shed load of tourque! So a Mi16 clutch would be a bonus.

 

Thanks

 

mad.

[petert 607]

all Mi16 flywheels are 60-2. Yes it bolts straight onto an 8V crank, and yes you can then use an Mi16 clutch/pressure plate with your existing gearbox.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Furthermore, you need to use the Mi16 clutch. Also, they made 8v 200mm toothed flywheels, you need one from a later CAT engine.

[inferno 1]

i seem to remember the clutch plate bolts differing when fitting an mi clutch to flywheel once before, anthony kindly managed to sort those out for me at the time!

[Guest jimmy9gti]

A couple of questions mainly....

 

Do all Mi16 flywheels have the 60-2 trigger wheel pattern?

 

Is there any reason why I can't use the Mi16 flywheel on a 8v with 8v BE3 gearbox? If so do I have to use the Mi clutch or can I use the 8v clutch?

I basically I want the flywheel trigger as it would make a nicer install over the crank pully type. The engine itself will be a 'highly' tuned 8v with a shed load of tourque! So a Mi16 clutch would be a bonus.

 

Thanks

 

mad.

 

Hi,

sorry for sounding dumb!,but could you explain what you mean when you say:basically I want the flywheel trigger as it would make a nicer install over the crank pully type?.

I have the mi16 flywheel fitted on my 1.9 8v,it has the extra toothed ring gear on it though which i assume was for the flywheel sensor and to do with electronic timing??.

Problem i now think i have is that there are no timing marks on this flywheel!,so not sure what to do as far as timing goes??.

As it is i cant get the engine to fire up anyway!. I've got a good spark at the plugs,and believe enough fuel getting through coz the plugs are wet when i take them out after trying to fire it up!

I have got twin 45 webers fitted,with facet pump and glass bowl fuel regulator.

Also could you explain the 60-2 trigger wheel pattern?

Just out of interest i have fitted the full mi16 clutch kit,and also forgot to mention the box is actually mi16 BE3.

Any views/HELP!,would be very very much appreciated

[PumaRacing 2]

Hi,

sorry for sounding dumb!,but could you explain what you mean when you say:basically I want the flywheel trigger as it would make a nicer install over the crank pully type?.

I have the mi16 flywheel fitted on my 1.9 8v,it has the extra toothed ring gear on it though which i assume was for the flywheel sensor and to do with electronic timing??.

Problem i now think i have is that there are no timing marks on this flywheel!,so not sure what to do as far as timing goes??.

As it is i cant get the engine to fire up anyway!. I've got a good spark at the plugs,and believe enough fuel getting through coz the plugs are wet when i take them out after trying to fire it up!

I have got twin 45 webers fitted,with facet pump and glass bowl fuel regulator.

Also could you explain the 60-2 trigger wheel pattern?

Just out of interest i have fitted the full mi16 clutch kit,and also forgot to mention the box is actually mi16 BE3.

Any views/HELP!,would be very very much appreciated

 

If you have 8v ignition with a dizzy then it isn't using the flywheel teeth anyway. You'll have to find TDC with a dial gauge on no 1 piston and put a timing mark somewhere (front pulley or flywheel) if you want to use a strobe light.

 

60-2 means that there are 60 evenly spaced teeth (a tooth every 6 degrees) but with two missing to give a reference point. The sensor reads each tooth as it passes (so it knows the engine speed) and when the gap appears the ecu knows the crank position and hence when to fire the plugs. Usually the gap is at about 70 degrees before TDC so the ecu has time to calculate the firing delay before the spark is due at 10 to 30 degrees before TDC.

 

The other common tooth pattern is 36-1. A tooth every ten degrees with one missing to give the reference point. Provided the ecu is told the tooth pattern that exists you could theoretically use any pattern although having a number of teeth that divides exactly into 360 makes life easier.

[Guest jimmy9gti]

If you have 8v ignition with a dizzy then it isn't using the flywheel teeth anyway. You'll have to find TDC with a dial gauge on no 1 piston and put a timing mark somewhere (front pulley or flywheel) if you want to use a strobe light.

 

60-2 means that there are 60 evenly spaced teeth (a tooth every 6 degrees) but with two missing to give a reference point. The sensor reads each tooth as it passes (so it knows the engine speed) and when the gap appears the ecu knows the crank position and hence when to fire the plugs. Usually the gap is at about 70 degrees before TDC so the ecu has time to calculate the firing delay before the spark is due at 10 to 30 degrees before TDC.

 

The other common tooth pattern is 36-1. A tooth every ten degrees with one missing to give the reference point. Provided the ecu is told the tooth pattern that exists you could theoretically use any pattern although having a number of teeth that divides exactly into 360 makes life easier.

 

Hi,

many many thanks for the reply. Believe i printed off some time ago now your article on modifying the 1.9 8v and 16v peugeot heads,very interesting and made for some very good reading!!.

 

Just out of interest,the very first time i tried to start the engine after putting it in and connecting everything up as per the thread in this forum for converting to twin carbs,although turning over quite nicely,it was popping /banging and releasing air quite forceably from around the misab mounting o rings between carbs and manifold.Does this shed any light on what is happening/ going on?,or what could be wrong?? After a while think i probably flooded it because i was thinking not enough fuel getting through so pumped throttle a few times! ,spark plugs were well wet anyway!. I then started to look at other things,and changed the leads around thinking i'd put them on in the wrong place,still wont fire up .

 

Have taken spark plug out of no1 and got piston on the compression stroke, then at very top of bore when it fires have looked in dizzy cap at rotor arm and have arranged leads in order 1 3 4 2 anti clockwise,i'm assuming this is correct thing to do?,is this right?.

 

How do you mean find TDC?,and what is a dial guage? and would i be able to get hold of one cheap enough,and how do they work?.

Have to say though since i've tried the new lead configuration the engine seems to spin over more freely but is not popping and banging from around carbs anymore!. Is there a chance i may have the leads on in the wrong position?.

Also after trying to start the engine the plugs seem to get very wet very quickly.

 

Sorry for being very cheeky with so many questions,just that i'm at my wits end and about ready to put a match to the whole thing!

 

Thanks very much for the info so far anyway,

cheers Jim.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

i seem to remember the clutch plate bolts differing when fitting an mi clutch to flywheel once before

Yes, they are.

 

The 8v flywheel has M8 bolts where the Mi16 has M7 ones, same as the sump bolts.

 

The Mi flywheel will bolt straight on, I've got one on mine for the CAS to work from.

 

Graham.

[Sandy 191]

Later XU 1.8 engines have a timing toothed fly with 200mm clutch, which is nice.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Later XU 1.8 engines have a timing toothed fly with 200mm clutch, which is nice.

 

Yep - that's what I'm using - managed to get it lightened as well whilst still retaining the timing gear. Not sure by how much but you certainly notice it's effect when driving.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Yep - that's what I'm using - managed to get it lightened as well whilst still retaining the timing gear. Not sure by how much but you certainly notice it's effect when driving.

My Mi16 flywheel is L&B from QEP.

 

IIRC it now weighs just over 5kg's.

 

Graham.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Mine was from QEP also. As I say, no idea how much it was lightened by, but it will weight less than the larger, lightened MI16 one (providing it's kept it's teeth of course)

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Mine was from QEP also. As I say, no idea how much it was lightened by, but it will weight less than the larger, lightened MI16 one (providing it's kept it's teeth of course)

I doubt there will be much if anything in it, mine has the teeth still as I need them for CAS to work & the car to run.

 

Only Matt can answer for certain though.

 

Graham.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

They were both lightened by Matt and they both have the timing gear, so I guess the difference will still be proportional to the difference in weight pre-lightening. It's certainly made a difference to engine pick-up (and stalling!).

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

All that is different between the two (afaik) is the clutch cover bolt holes are slightly further apart, a different thread (Mi smaller) & clutch contact surface is slightly larger.

 

I'll try to compare them later this week. (got one of each off the car)

 

Graham.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

They're 15mm different in diameter - so that's where the difference in weight will be.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Thanks.. This is all good news as I just bought a Mi flywheel for a £1, ebay can be good some times!

 

So all I need now is an Mi clutch and some M7 bolts! Hold on! What do these bolts hold on? I take it these bolts hold the clutch and are nothing to do with attaching the flywheel to the crank.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

They're 15mm different in diameter - so that's where the difference in weight will be.

Externally the flywheels are exactly the same size, its just the clutch plate contact area that is 15mm bigger on the Mi flywheel.

 

The M7 bolts just hold the clutch cover onto the flywheel, the flywheel is held to the crank with the same sized bolts as the original 205 one.

 

Graham.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

The 8v flywheel has M8 bolts where the Mi16 has M7 ones, same as the sump bolts.

 

Fitting the Mi16 flywheel and clutch later in the week....

 

I take it the bolts arent supplied in the clutch kit?

 

Might sound silly, but can I use spare sump bolts to hold the clutch on or do I need different length and hardness? Anyone know?

 

Thanks

[smckeown 1]

I basically I want the flywheel trigger as it would make a nicer install over the crank pully type.

 

Sure it's a nicer install, but then you can't run a super light flywheel (minus timing teeth) or lighter (smaller clutch). Of course you only need to go the route I did for a dedicated track car/race car though/

 

Sean

[vern 0]

The bolts did not come in the kit I used (Helix), I think people have used standard bolts.

They are expensive from Peugeot £4 each, so I would imagine they are something stronger or different in some way.