One For The Engine Builders

[PsychoSimon 0]

Evening all,

Was just wondering as i am planning to build a 2044cc engine from a 406 16v lump and my mi crank.

Assuming there is no step in the bore of the 406 bottom end will i need to get it re-honed? I could do without having to change rings etc and the engine is low mileage anyway.

 

Also i presume the 406 16v engine (130 oddhp) has the same head as the 2.0 mi16? and therefore the 1.9mi16? i know the castings are visually different but what about valve sizes and port sizes/shapes?

Would the 1.9mi16 cams go in if i got the inlet one reground with a hotter profile?

I would like to use the 406 head over the mi one as it has the coil packs in it and looks quite smart and will be a tidy install, plus it's easier to insure.

 

A lot of questions i know but answers to any will be greatfully received,

Regards,

Simon

[M@tt 77]

i could be wrong but i think the head will be different as i believe the head and the cams are what gives the different XU10 engines their different power where as the bottom ends (cranks piston and liners) are the same across the models

 

The XU10 had a displacement of 2.0 L (1998 cc), with a bore and stroke of 86 mm

 

so if the bottom ends are the same then the heads must be different and therefore if you head and cams produce 130 and the 2.0 mi16 produces 160? then i think there must be a difference

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PSA_engines

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_XU_engine#XU10

Edited July 11, 2006 by M@tt

[Veero 1]

Sorry not a helpful reply, but is there anything Wikipedia doesn't know??

[petert 587]

406's have both EW and XU 2L engines. So you'd better sort that one out first. If it is an XU10J4R, the head is NOT the same as the earlier XU10J4 as fitted to S16 and 2.0L Mi16. It's similar to the XU10J4RS head as fitted to the GTi6.

[Guest rick03054]

Sorry if this isn't entirely relevant to the original post (I think it is?) but theres a 406 16V in my local scrappy, is it worth looking into what they want for the engine or not?

[Mattsav 1]

Get it honed to see just how much wear is in the bore.

 

If its not perfect then it will destroy the rings as they try and go over the ridge.

 

 

If in doubt deck the block by 1mm and keep the 86mm crank.

[christopher 5 1 Cars]

If in doubt deck the block by 1mm and keep the 86mm crank.

 

Possibly a supid question..But can you deck the block with the pistons in?

[deejay391 0]

Slightly off topic (sorry) but if the XU9 & XU10 bottom ends are the same, if you fit a XU9 crank in a XU10 blcok the displacement is increased?? to 2044??

 

But the XU9's displacement is 1905 and the XU10 displacement is 1998??

How can swapping cranks increase the already larger of the two's displacement?? Sorry im new to this engine talk

[TEKNOPUG 3]

They aren't the same though. The heads are interchangeable (XU9-XU10 and vice versa) but the blocks are different.

The XU9 is 83mm bore with an 88mm stroke, whereas the XU10 is 86mm bore with an 86mm stroke. So if you use the XU9 crank in an XU10 block you'd have an 86mm bore with an 88mm stroke and thus, an increase in capacity.

[deejay391 0]

where as the bottom ends (cranks piston and liners) are the same across the models

so if the bottom ends are the same then the heads must be different

 

ah this threw me

 

cheers teknopug, gonna do a search on this cause im thinking of doing it just need to find out what else needs doing to accompany it

 

 

They aren't the same though. The heads are interchangeable (XU9-XU10 and vice versa) but the blocks are different.

The XU9 is 83mm bore with an 88mm stroke, whereas the XU10 is 86mm bore with an 86mm stroke. So if you use the XU9 crank in an XU10 block you'd have an 86mm bore with an 88mm stroke and thus, an increase in capacity.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Sorry if this isn't entirely relevant to the original post (I think it is?) but theres a 406 16V in my local scrappy, is it worth looking into what they want for the engine or not?

 

Take a pic of the engine, put it on here and we'll tell you if it's worth ripping out. 406 16V doesn't tell you or us anything.

[PsychoSimon 0]

my one is from a p reg 406 so i fear the head differs? as in its like the gti6 one? Are these heads any good?

are there any markings i can look out for to be sure? Has a plastic inlet if that helps? I do have an MI head if needs be, but would have preferred the 2.0 one, but hey. life goes on i guess.

Any definitive answer as to what head bolts i need to use then if i put the mi head onto the iron bottom?

Edited July 12, 2006 by PsychoSimon

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

That is the downtuned GTi6 head (136bhp engine).

 

It's best to put the Mi16 head (bigger valves!) on top of this 2.0 bottomend.

[PsychoSimon 0]

sound thank you, at least i know.

any definitive answer on head bolts then for this combo?

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Yes....I used 1.9D headbolts.

[PsychoSimon 0]

thank you very much mate thats helped me out. i presume you have used 1.9d mains and big end bearings as well? is your engine to drive compared to your old 1.9?

[inferno 1]

what made you choose 1.9d headbolts? im about to do the same conversion, i have an r reg 2litre auto 406 on nearly no miles,and a bx needed a head rebuild ideally, so can i confirm...

2litre bottom end honed(assuming theres no exessive wear) using same pistons and rods ect.

 

1.9 mi16 crank from alloy engine (polished or ground if need be) im assuming bearings are the same between the cranks?if not what bearings?

 

1.9d headbolts ( y not mi16?!)

 

mi16 head, or 2litre 16v 134ps head with bigger valves and 1.9 cams?

 

assuming this all goes well, could i then fit the 2litre crank back into the mi16 engine with another mi16 head, resulting in a 1.8 low CR ideal for a turbo conversion?

[PsychoSimon 0]

from what i have read we need to use 1.9d bottom end bearings as they are a 1.9 crank in an iron block.

The mi16 head has an inbuilt spacer or something which means that one of the 2.0 head bolts is too short.

The mi16 head is better because it has the flow potential for for nigh on 200bhp straight out of the box as opposed to spending money on the low power head to get even that far.

All this i have read on here in various places and obviously what i've learned from this thread.

hope this helps mate?

Si

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

that is right...because of the spacers in the Mi head the 2.0-16V bolts are too short. The 1.9Mi bolts have the wrong thread M11 instead of M12.

So the 1.9D bolts have the right thread and are a bit longer. So you can use the spacers in the Mi head like the original setup (just leave out the spacer above the waterpump and replace with a washer to keep it al level).

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Just remember you'll nedd to turn the 1.9D headbolts heads down 1-1.5mm in a lathe in order to make them enter the Mi16 head, no big deal, but you should be aware of it.

[petert 587]

from what i have read we need to use 1.9d bottom end bearings as they are a 1.9 crank in an iron block.

 

or 2L bearings.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

yeah...just mix'n match