Cambelt, Water Pump, Crank Shaft Oil Seal. X 2

[kyepan 291]

Hi there,

 

you know why i really love these cars, because the break all the time, which means I get to learn new things..

 

So now the water pump is leaking, I may as well do the cambelt and crank shaft oil seal too, as that's weeping slightly. A mates car is pissing oil from the crank shaft oil seal, so this job is X 2.

 

Have some questions that don't seem to have been answered from searcing, so if anyone can help that would be grand.

 

Firstly, do I need to renew the tensioner as part of the cam belt change? Or is it for the revised tensioner with the proper bolt not alan bolt?

 

Secondly, how difficult is the seal once the crank pully is off, I can only find results for the clutch end seal, any tips anyone?

 

lastly...The loom on both cars rests in between the cam cover and the inner arch, there is not enough slack to move it, do people disconnect all the injector afm etc, plugs and move it? or remove the cam covers and avoid it?

 

I've got the Usefull vid of tensioning the belt on the s16 so thats ok, and dad's going to get some 8-6mm dowels made up so thats covered too, gsf for the parts, i think.. yep..

 

cheers guys

 

Justin.

Edited June 29, 2006 by kyepan

[kyepan 291]

ps. do i want a front crank shaft oil seal from GSF or a rear one?

[jim21070 2]

Hi there,

 

Firstly, do I need to renew the tensioner as part of the cam belt change? Or is it for the revised tensioner with the proper bolt not alan bolt?

 

cheers guys

 

Justin.

 

Deffo do all this at the same time. I can't answer on the seals but the tensioner I would subject to close scrutiny. It is essentially a ball-race so test it by spinning it whilst holding it near your ear. If it spins nice and silently with no jerkiness or grittiness then it'll roll on with no problems for a long time. If it shows any of the symptoms described or has any detectable play then I'd change it, not really because it'll fail but because it'll get progressivly noisier and annoy you. It would have to be really, really bad to fail. They're quite expensive which is why it is worth assessing the old one before replacing it.

 

All this only relates to the older type tensioner. I know nothing about the later one but few were fitted with them as then came along in 1992 if memory serves me.

 

I did not change mine two years ago because it was just about OK but now it's just getting to the stage where it is noisy and niggling me. It will shortly be changed, along with the water pump and belt.

[jonnie205 1]

just bought a cam belt kit which came with 2 tensioners and it was £76.

 

Worth doing while its apart

[kyepan 291]

cool thanks for the replies guys, i'll get the ear to it and check for bearing wear.

 

anyone know about the oil seal?

[jonnie205 1]

sorry, oil seal isnt too bad. just make sure you are methodical in taking everything apart and re-assembly

 

easiest way to get the old seal out is to wind a small self tapper into the seal (carefully!) and then pull it out with some pliers.

 

knock the new one in with a mallet and nylon drift, make sure its even all the way round

[pugrallye 0]

oil seal you want is a front one

[kyepan 291]

cheers guys, will be doing this next weekend, thanks for all the replies.

 

Justin.

[kyepan 291]

Ok got the belts, seals and water pump, am going to start tonight.

 

Not found a how to guide on doing this with the engine in the car, this one 306 is engine out.

 

 

Would anyone be interested in a laymans cam belt / water pump / crank oil seal change guide / faq with pics.. i can do it if there is demand.

 

I'm going to try without dropping the engine on one side and removing the rhs wheel / strut etc and see what happens.

 

Any advice from MI16 cambelt vets? other than it gets easier the second time around.

 

 

Justin

[kyepan 291]

got started tonight.

 

so far

 

Got the top cover off, seemed to come off easier once i'd had some dinner .. weired huh.

Access to the tensioners is very poor, going to remove the very very rusty water pipe (anyone know the part number) before going any further.

 

If i undo the top engine mount, and lower it on a jack, do i need to undo the bottom mount or will it magically just lower?

 

Justin

[kyepan 291]

yesterday I spent mostly skinning my knuckes getting dirt and rust in my eyes, and swearing at very very hard to undo bolts, that have been wrecked beyond use by the previous owner of my car.. Having run out of decent swear words, i've invented some new ones just for this @(*%^& car!

 

So the crank pully and lower covers came off without incedent which was nice, the car lulluing me into a false sense of securtity, then it was time to undo the bolts for the tensioners. Two wimpy little bolts, not a problem, i have many tools in both metric and imperial.. easy as ... pie.

 

Two problems were immediatly apparent, 1 no access to said bolts, except in positions that yoga instructors attempt when feeling like a challenge, 2 some gorilla that changed the cam belt had completely stripped the hex bolts.. so no allen key, bolt, or anything else was going to get any purchase, even if i could get into the correct position and palpate my rectum in time with my breathing to exert more than a gnats farts worth of torque on them.

 

Eventually it was clear to all involved that this was not happening and we needed more acces.. so around about the time we were aiming to be putting the cam belt on, we got round to removing the upper engine mount and lowering, this gave enough access to tap a torx 45 bit into the front tensioner and undo it..

 

one down one to go..

 

The other one was not going to be so easy.. so i gave up and went to drink some beer and have sex.

 

Sunday morning, back with a plan dreamed up in the afterglow of last night, off came the hub nut, bottom arm out, drive shaft out, top engine mount on, lower engine mount off, engine lowered more.. not enough.. exhaust fouling on sub frame crossmember.

 

jacked back up..

 

undid exhaust, lowered again, still not enough to get straight on access and tap something in.. plus this was worse it was completely rounded. i'll get some photos. tried to chisel it off, no luck. some penetrating oil later, one ruined alen key that was filed to fit.. and no joy. It even teased me for about twenty mintues by letting me put an alen key into it, only to round again causing more bleeding knucle sacrifices.

 

I continued to swear until about half an hour ago, were i took a chisel to it and hit it for what seemed a sutiable ammount of time to forgive my knuckles.. and it came off.

 

water pump was easy after that, new one on in twenty minutes..

 

 

Now i need two new bolts for the tensioners, can you get these separtately from peugeot, would prefer normal botls rather than these bloody hex things that seem to be made of a substance slightly harder than gone off banannas!!

 

Cheers

 

Justin

Edited July 9, 2006 by kyepan

[kyepan 291]

the tensioner retaining bolts are 60p each, and will be here tomorrow, so i can carry on tomorrow night

[kyepan 291]

new cambelt on, not really too hard..

 

the tension is 45_70 degrees deviation, the tensioning vid from the 306 site has dissapeared, has anyone got a copy.

 

failing that, has anyone got a rule of thumb / proper peugeot tensioner ..

pretty please

[kyepan 291]

bump anyone?

[M@tt 77]

sounds like a bitch of a job mate, well done for perserveering(sp??)

 

i know the rule of thumb when setting the tensioner is to set it so that the cambelt on the longest straight part of the free belt can be twisted a max of 90 degrees when you hold it between your index finger and thumb and give it a twist.

 

HTH

[kyepan 291]

so its all back together, started first time, and .. its running fairly ok, usually it takes a bit of time for the ecu to do its self learn thing and get itself sorted. new gearbox oil, fluids etc.

 

Exhaust Is blowing at the back box and that needs adjusting slightly, also there is alot of noise from either the alternator drive belt to .......or the cam belt.. its a whiring pully belt type sound.

 

Not sure if the drive belt is too slack / tight, going to adjust that / take it off for a min to isolate where the noise is coming from.

 

If it's coming from the cam belt does that mean its too tight, or are they noisy for the first 50km? I did check the tensioners for play / noise / smoothness and they were fine. I don't mind adjusting it again as it's much easier second time round.

 

cheers

 

Justin

[pug309twin40s 1]

easiest way to test if its either the cambelt or alternator belt screeching will be to take of the alternator belt then run the engine. if it still squeeks you know its the cambelt.

[kyepan 291]

Took off the alternator drive belt, and it was still noisy.

 

So off came the cam cover again, seemed to be easier second time round, adjusted both tensioners to reduce the tension.

 

checked, still noisy.

 

slacked them off a little bit more.

 

checked.. no noise.

 

Put it back togehter and thats that, one changed the cambelt and water pump.

[kyepan 291]

It may have jumped a tooth this morning, as there are two nice big flat spots mid range. So i'm going to whip the covers off again , put the dowls in the holes to check and set about skinning my knuckles for the seventeenth time.

 

The rear tensioner on the short run between water pump and exaust pully was likely to be causing the whine as it seemed to immedately apply lots of pressure on the belt , and i wound it up pretty hard to allow adjustment on the front. If i didn't wind it up, i had to fully tension the front to get under 90 degrees of twist on the longest run.

 

I may also have not torqued them up properly after the second adjustment, because it was getting dark and i was being harassed to go to the pub by my dad.

[Bono 0]

the description of your weekend made me chuckle.

good luck!

[kyepan 291]

So off the covers came again this sunday gone, and its now fairly easy to do, detaching the fuel filter from the bulkhead helps alot when removing the covers. I think, and i'll find this out when i do this on the other car, that you can do the cam belt without dropping the engine.

 

Checked the tensioners were tight and the belt correctly tensioned, all A OK, so i started checking other componenets for the mysterious ignition flat spot..

 

got no farther than the dizzy cap when i found the answer..

 

Whoever converted the car used the mi16 coil lead, this is not long enough, and so the dizzy cap was being pulled at constantly. It had jumped out of position as its a clip on and become missaligned and the rotor arm has gradually gauged a grove into it, peircing it completely at one point..

 

When putting it back on I was electrocuted one hundred and eleventy seven times becase the damn leads don't stay on. grrr

 

New lead did not fix, so dizzy cap number 3 will be purchased at the weekend.

[kyepan 291]

right been a busy boy over the weekend,

 

was working on the s*it box, my affectionate name for Jay's old miami mi16.. got to get it into a good state and ready to run.

 

cam belt change was easy, the loom was a little longer and could be moved, so clearance to remove the covers was good. Part of the job was changing the crank shaft oil seal, it turns out that both the cam shaft oil seals were leaking too, as was the dizzy cap seal at the other end. So replaced all three cam shaft and one crank shaft oil seal. Once done, cam belt back on, and tensioned, covers back on.

 

The crank shaft oil seal was easy, just locked up the flywheel with a screw driver to get the bolt undone and it came out easy, made a tool to tap the new one in out of some old citroen cx exaust pipe.

 

also gave the whole area a good degrease, and my mate fixed the dodgy cutting out of the fuel when going over bumps, seems the connector block on the tachy relay was dodgy so he rewired it and the cars now solid.

 

also one of the lower wishbone bush bolts was loose so thats probably cured the left right accelerate lift off behaviour.