What Coilovers - Differences / Value For Money

[SPGTi 2]

Most of the threads I have found on coilovers are for fast road or track cars. I want to relace the Koni sports on my road rally car so that I can set the car a bit better depending on the event. When it is known to lots of rough sections I can increase the height slightly and conversley when it is a "smooth" event lower them slightly.

 

Options so far

 

Bilstein setup - monotube with inverted 20mm inserts, no adjustment apart from ride height. A known quantity but at about £750 is it worth it ?

 

Avo setup - got offered 2 different setups 1. monotube with inverted 20mm inserts with adjustable bump and rebound as well as height £600

2. as above but with remote cannisters giving a lot greater travel £800

 

AST - seem very expensive with same spec as the cheaper avo costing more than the avo with remote cannisters. Also seeing a pic next to billies the insert seems thinner

 

Combrake - £500 to get there bilstein copy setup using billie inserts.

 

Gaz - not sure if they are man enough for the job

 

Leda - need to find more info

 

Proflex / Ohlins - too expensive

 

 

Steve

[Jonmurgie 2]

Firslty, you are away that coilovers are only for the front of the 205, to raise and lower the hight at will you'll have to adjust the beam each time, a PITA but that's just how it is

 

I've tried a few of the options you have listed and here are my thoughts:

 

Bilstein GrpA Struts with Tarmac Inserts - These were my first stepup from standard shocks and I loved them, they made the car proper hard at the front and a nice ride height. However, they are NON-adjustable so the rate they are set is decided by Bilstein/PugSport and that's what you get. Overall I liked them but didn't like not having the damping adjustment for different tracks/surfaces.

 

Gaz Adjustables - I've no experience of the front shocks but I had a pair on the rear. They are cheap and chearful, look the part but that isn't necessarily always good... I had them on the back with the Billies on the front and wound them up to their hardest (33 clicks, you have to question why they put in so many adjustments really, is it just marketing hype?!). THey seemed OK, until I moved onto a full AST setup and we compared the GAZ to the AST on the suspension dyno PowerStation have and as soon as the shocks were warm they had absolutely NO damping in them... they turned out to be rubbish IMO. There are quite a few people running the full Gaz setup as at ~£350 for a coilover set they are very very good value... but at what price?!

 

AVO - I only have experience of the AVO's on a Mk3 Golf VR6 and they were very very hard again, although adjustable they seem to just think a HARD shock is a good shock so even the lowest damping setting it firm. The guys who run GAZ used to work for AVO so they are much a muchness really and one to avoid IMO.

 

AST - Now you are entering 'professional' suspension teritory... don't be put off by the cost of the AST's as what your getting is a far superior shock that's beautifully engineered and has full UK backup. These are manufacturered in Holland (where lots of superior motorsport stuff is made) and are fully servicable and able to be supplied however you need to use them (spring rate, adjustable top mount fitting etc.). The price of them is actually incorrect on the AST UK website, I belive they have been dropped to £620 + VAT and I can tell you, after changing from the Billies to these the car is seriously more stable on the track while at the same time actually being able to be driven on the road! I can't recommed these enough, they are heavily used in racing series in Europe and now in the UK as race teams are becoming aware of the brand. In Holland the AST guys offer to fit sets to race cars and say that they will gaurantee their car will be quicker round the track than before... and they are Oh, and the shaft size has fook all to do with how a shock performs, there is no laternal movement so the size is irrelevant!

 

Combrake - Never heard of them...

 

LEDA - Overpriced rubbish IMO... I have seen many a race car at PowerStation having full Leda setups removed in favor of AST's and that's enough for me to be convinced! Sean had a full set of Leda's on his track Mi16 a few years ago, I believe that he wouldn't recommend them at £3.5k for a set!

 

Proflex & Ohlins - As you say, serious money but it's serious suspension... you pay your money and you take your choice.

 

So for me, I would highly recommend the AST's over the Billies and GAZ. If you were even contemplating forking out for the Billies then you should go for the AST's and I promise you will not be disapointed. I know that PowerStation have a set in stock...

[Batfink 201]

how did he pay £3.5k on Ledas!

My brother got Leda coilovers front and rear plus the rear turreted for less than that!

[Pug_101 0]

Most of the threads I have found on coilovers are for fast road or track cars. I want to relace the Koni sports on my road rally car so that I can set the car a bit better depending on the event. When it is known to lots of rough sections I can increase the height slightly and conversley when it is a "smooth" event lower them slightly.

 

Options so far

 

Bilstein setup - monotube with inverted 20mm inserts, no adjustment apart from ride height. A known quantity but at about £750 is it worth it ?

 

Avo setup - got offered 2 different setups 1. monotube with inverted 20mm inserts with adjustable bump and rebound as well as height £600

2. as above but with remote cannisters giving a lot greater travel £800

 

AST - seem very expensive with same spec as the cheaper avo costing more than the avo with remote cannisters. Also seeing a pic next to billies the insert seems thinner

 

Combrake - £500 to get there bilstein copy setup using billie inserts.

 

Gaz - not sure if they are man enough for the job

 

Leda - need to find more info

 

Proflex / Ohlins - too expensive

Steve

 

 

SPGTi I would be interested in the Koni's if you sell them and are still in good condition.

Thanks

[smckeown 1]

My Ledas were £1,300 inc vat, that includes the emulsified gas option. They are excellent in my opinion, but If I were buying new again I would seriously look at AST and maybe others, bcause I think you can have better for less. But they are not rubbish at all.

 

The same setup has been transplanted onto my new 8v in progress... Pete F also drove my car and said it handled well. He'll be driving the 8v soon for a lot longer with the stiffer rear, so we'll see what he has to say.

Edited June 17, 2006 by smckeown

[Jonmurgie 2]

Sorry, I think it was your compelte suspension had cost 3k or somthing matey...

 

Everyone has their favorite shocks really (once they start looking into it) so I guess that Leads aren't necessarily rubbish but I do wonder why people change from one to to another unless it's better

 

Oh, and PeteF runs a full GAZ setup incase people didn't know...

Edited June 17, 2006 by Jonmurgie

[rich_w 0]

I belive they have been dropped to £620 + VAT

 

Jon are you talking about the Tuning or Sport line?

 

Tuning line appears to be £606+VAT with the Sports @ £820+VAT

[Jonmurgie 2]

As mentioned the pricing on the AST UK site is well out of date... the whole range has changed but PowerStation are too tight to change the w2ebsite! Tuning Line is pretty much no more and there is just the Sport Line for that majority of cars and then the Race stuff with is remote canisters etc.

 

I believe, and a quick phonecall to Curtis @ PowerStation will confirm this for anyone interested, that the price for a set of AST Sportline for the 205 is £620 + VAT

[Batfink 201]

Sorry, I think it was your compelte suspension had cost 3k or somthing matey...

 

Everyone has their favorite shocks really (once they start looking into it) so I guess that Ledas aren't necessarily rubbish but I do wonder why people change from one to to another unless it's better

 

Oh, and PeteF runs a full GAZ setup incase people didn't know...

 

 

Maybe off the shelf suspension is always not good enough. With Leda the suspension was chosen especially for the car and its weight/ use

[Jonmurgie 2]

As are the AST's... I'm not sure I follow why you said what you just did there Batfink?!

[Foltan 0]

LEDA now do a kit for the 205 so it will be alot cheaper than the specialist make-ups. they are massively respected by companies making track and race cars but i think if you are using them in an older or standard car (such as the 205) you have to ensure that the whole car is set up for their use (top mounts, beam mounts etc) However, im sure theres lots of other good companies too!

[SPGTi 2]

I believe, and a quick phonecall to Curtis @ PowerStation will confirm this for anyone interested, that the price for a set of AST Sportline for the 205 is £620 + VAT

 

Is this just fronts or rears as well ?

 

cheers

 

Steve

[SPGTi 2]

Is this just fronts or rears as well ?

 

cheers

 

Steve

 

 

Just called Powerstation and got quoted £820+vat for front and rears.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Who did you speak to as that price is wrong....? You need to speak to Curtis and I bet you didn't

[smckeown 1]

Just called Powerstation and got quoted £820+vat for front and rears.

So about £1k all in, ooh that's rather expensive, are they twice as good as GAZ at roughly £500 ?

 

I don't think I would spend as much as I did previously, but then again i'm older, earn less and more tight

[Jonmurgie 2]

Just double checked with Curtis and the price on the AST's is pretty much £600 + VAT (so just over £700)

 

Sorry you got the wrong price, I have informed them they gave the wrong price...

 

Oh, and yes that includes the rear shocks...

[veloce200 3]

so the Sportline is adjustable monotube for under £1k - very good value then.

only things to consider with Monotube (and why Leda are still popular) is twin tubes have a wider adjustment range so for someone starting out in circuit racing they can play with a wider range of spring rates.

 

Jon agree 33 settings is silly. On most dampers the lower 3 or 4 and upper 4-5 should NOT be used. If you ran your Gaz rears on max then you have enough rebound for 600lb in springs....

 

I think is sounds like you tested the Gaz unit upside down - how long was the test? How hot was the damper? Modern oils mean oil only twin tubes are used on rallys with no problems on short stages. I fail to see what test could cause their to be "no damping" unless it was upside down. In which case this would explain it...!

 

I'm a big fan of monotube though and the only problem with billies were their lack of adjustment. I wish I'd know about AST earlier!