Difficult To Start...

[Pete C 0]

Symptoms are this - car starts fine when it's just been running and when it's stone cold (although when cold it does the usual idle hunting for about 1 min), but at all other times, i.e. when it's semi-warm, it's quite hard to start.

 

It turns over no problem (since I fixed the starter solenoid wire ), but I have to give it just a little throttle, and then it catches after about 10 secs turning over. Any ideas?

 

Car is a 1.9 8v, was stood for about 3 years before I bought it a month ago.

[gats15 0]

Being semi warm, it could be the SAD not fully engaged or working properly

[Pete C 0]

Oh no! Not the Supplementary Air Device, I hate those things...

[brianthemagical 1]

the sads is easy to do stuff to, if you can find it. if you susspect it this, take it off and clean it. there is a 7mm nut on the side, undo it then move it slightly, this will affect the opening, and go from there.

[base-1 17]

Sounds like a SAD, someone on here replaced theirs with a Ford valve recently, might be a good swap. Otherwise just clean yours up to buggery and it should work for a month or two

 

Almost as bad a piece of design as the rear beam - yours is probably f***ed if the car was standing for 3 years

[Pete C 0]

Sounds like a SAD, someone on here replaced theirs with a Ford valve recently, might be a good swap. Otherwise just clean yours up to buggery and it should work for a month or two

 

Almost as bad a piece of design as the rear beam - yours is probably f***ed if the car was standing for 3 years

 

Thanks for the tip, think I've got an old Ford valve in the garage, might give it a try

 

The rear beam was f***ed, driver's side trailing arm was completely seized, swapped it for a beam from a K plate 1.9 which had only covered 60k

Edited June 17, 2006 by Pete C

[Guest RickGTIBaker]

Corroded Dizzy cap - rotor arm and timing shouldn't be over looked.

[Pete C 0]

Very true, was thinking of changing the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs and leads anyway as they're pretty much service items

[Guest RickGTIBaker]

I'd check timing mainly, the sad in this weather can be shut off, as it's plenty warm in the day.

 

Vacuum unit on the dizzy too may by stuck in position too.

[futura 3]

Very true, was thinking of changing the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs and leads anyway as they're pretty much service items

If you manage to sort out the problem, I'll be happy to know how, as I've had the same trouble with mine since I bought it back in 2001.

 

I've cleaned the induction circuit, cleaned and tested the SAD (it closed fine after 5 minutes, though I didn't try to change the setting of the opened position), looked for other air vaccuums, changed dizzy, rotor arm, leads, coil (as it died), inlet manifold gasket (there was an air vaccum), injector o-rings, temperature sensor, AFM....

[Pete C 0]

I'd check timing mainly, the sad in this weather can be shut off, as it's plenty warm in the day.

 

Vacuum unit on the dizzy too may by stuck in position too.

 

To be honest I don't really suspect the timing or the vacuum unit because it drives great, surely if the timing was out, performance would be affected too?

[futura 3]

To be honest I don't really suspect the timing or the vacuum unit because it drives great, surely if the timing was out, performance would be affected too?

If you had a bit too much advance, performance wouldn't necessarily be affected, it could even be better, couldn't it? I'd check the vacuum advance too.

When I took mine to get the advance set up, the guy did it "just by listening" as we couldn't see the marks for timing setting on the engine... not too sure how well it's set

[Pete C 0]

If you had a bit too much advance, performance wouldn't necessarily be affected, it could even be better, couldn't it? I'd check the vacuum advance too.

When I took mine to get the advance set up, the guy did it "just by listening" as we couldn't see the marks for timing setting on the engine... not too sure how well it's set

 

Yeah, but too much advance won't cause a starting problem, will it? I could understand if it was too retarded, but it certainly doesn't drive like it is.

 

I have a stroboscopic timing light which I use to set the timing on my Nissan, sounds like it's virtually impossible to use on the 205 though...

[futura 3]

Yeah, but too much advance won't cause a starting problem, will it? I could understand if it was too retarded, but it certainly doesn't drive like it is.

 

I have a stroboscopic timing light which I use to set the timing on my Nissan, sounds like it's virtually impossible to use on the 205 though...

I'm not too sure about too much advance not causing strating problems, maybe someone expert on here could tell for sure?

I've got one of those strobelights too, but my 205 engine is just too compact and messy to use it on.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

It doesn't sound like a SAD problem to me, the SAD is merely an air bypass so won't really affect how the engine catches. My Mi16 with fault rotor arm would start first time cold but need several cranks to fire when hot. If you've changed this already maybe it could do with new plugs and cap perhaps.

[Guest RickGTIBaker]

If the spark is coming in too early with low compression (theres another) then sparking at thr wrong time will cause it.

[Guest Cartooner]

Way too much static advance can give your startermotor a hard time that's for sure. Imagine the starter turning the crank and bringing the piston up and than it gets a kick in the face from an early spark. You would notice this however. I'm pretty sure You don't have that much advance dialed in, or have You.

Edited June 17, 2006 by Cartooner

[ada205 2]

Way too much static advance can give your startermotor a hard time that's for sure. Imagine the starter turning the crank and bringing the piston up and than it gets a kick in the face from an early spark. You would notice this however. I'm pretty sure You don't have that much advance dialed in, or have You.

Agree with Cartooner. To much advance, and you'll often turn the key only to find the starter manages half a turn before giving up, or turns slowly before gaining speed! When this advanced, it normally takes a few flicks of the key, but will turn over once the starter manages to gain a bit of momentum!

 

Although mines an Mi, and on carbs, i had almost exactly the same symptoms untill recently, though mine was a little more servere in that it wouldnt start at all when it played up, but think this was down to the carbs, in that if i even though about giving it any help with the throttle, then instant flooding! Basically, the car would always start from cold, and usually start within around half an hour once turned off when warm, but after this time period, it was a complete b*stard to start. Hot or cold weather made no difference, it just didnt sound like it was firing at all when turning over, but would go instantly with a bump start. I suspected it was timing, but the timing had been set up by a mechanic after the dizzy died, so i left it alone.

 

Any way, recently the car decided to kill another dizzy, and this time i put the new dizzy on myself. When fitting the dizzy, i did the usual method of advancing the timing, which did give slow turn over a one point, and took it a few spins, giving it plenty in top at low revs on a local hill, and retarding the timing a little after each run untill the pinking stopped. Finally advanced it just a degree on from this point. The cars now starts first time, every time, and has been 100% since.

 

Just remember to mark the current position of the dizzy before adjusting if you do decide to try adjusting the timing, and keep an ear out for pinking.

[futura 3]

Bump: Did you sort your starting problem Pete C?