Warning For Mi16 To S16 Convertors

[jonand 0]

I was recently faced with getting a non starting 1.9 Mi16 to run. I diagnosed an ECU problem along with a possible ignition amp problem also. The engine is fitted to a competition car and I did not have access to many spare components. In conclusion I elected to purchase a second engine complete with management system which I came across for reasonable money - this would also give me a spare engine which I was after.

Having spent much time searching this forum for information - I concluded that the S16 engine was the same as the 2ltr Mi16, and that although the management systems were different (Monotronic 4.1 to Monotronic 1.3) - they could be made to interchange with a little effort. The engine I purchased was indeed a S16 engine from a 306 - but on closer inspection (unfortunately after I got it home) I realised that the systems are NOT interchangeable mainly due to the s16 having direct ignition coils which physically dont fit the 1.9 Mi head. Therefore it seems that the 2.0 Mi16 and the S16 are not quite as similar as first thought.

On a happier note the S16 was fitted and mechanically / electrically converted in the last week and was raced yesterday.

 

Regards

Jon

[dazEmad 0]

my 2.0mi is running on 1.9mi management but to do so you have to change the inlet cam so it can run the distributor and avoid the coil packs etc.

[jonand 0]

my 2.0mi is running on 1.9mi management but to do so you have to change the inlet cam so it can run the distributor and avoid the coil packs etc.

 

Ok I'll bear that in mind when I'm mixing and matching. I was attempting to end up with 2 engines with interchangeable management for ease of changeover. I am now considering using bike carbs with a mappable ignition set up which will acheive this for a reasonable budget.

 

Cheers

Jon

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

@jonand: your 2.0 Mi16 should have the coils as well!! If it doesn't you have a 1.9 Mi16.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The 2.0 XU10J4 engine's are the same in the 306, 405 Phase 2, ZX16v and Xantia VSX, As said you can run any ECU on any engine with some part swapping

[petert 586]

I concluded that the S16 engine was the same as the 2ltr Mi16, ........... I realised that the systems are NOT interchangeable mainly due to the s16 having direct ignition coils which physically dont fit the 1.9 Mi head. Therefore it seems that the 2.0 Mi16 and the S16 are not quite as similar as first thought.

 

 

They are identical, both XU10J4. The coil packs are retained by the cam cover, not the head. The 1.9L and 2.0L heads are otherwise identical in this regard.

[jonand 0]

OK guys thanks for all the responses. Just to point out that there are (at least) 3 management systems used between the 1.9 Mi16 (XU9J4) - Motronic 4.1, 2.0 Mi16 (XU10J4) - Motronic 1.3, and 2.0 S16 (XU10J4) - Motronic 3.2. It also seems that there was an overlap of management systems between the various car models - just to confuse further I have 4.1 and 3.2 with their respective engines i.e 1 @ XU9J4 and 1 @ XU10J4.

 

The 4.1 uses AFM, amp , coil + HT distributor on cam cover. The 1.3 uses MAP, amp, coil pack (I think). The 3.2 uses MAP in ecu, lambda sensing, amps (2), and direct coils on plugs.

 

From your responses it would seem that to run the 4.1 on the S16 I would need to change the inlet cam (and possibly the cam cover) and use the inlet system with AFM from the 1.9 Mi. To use the 3.2 on the 1.9 Mi would require changing the cam cover, inlet system with throttle body, exhaust section housing the lambda sensor (noting that the exhaust manifold stud layout is dissimilar) this also assumes that the knock sensor fits the 1.9 block.

 

I think I have it right - but welcome any comments or corrections.

 

Regards

Jon

[petert 586]

2.0 Mi16 (XU10J4) - Motronic 1.3,

 

There was an XU9J4 and XU9J4Z with Motronic 1.3, but never an XU10J4. At least I've never seen a 2L engine with an AFM. All Motronic 1.3 have an AFM and a dizzy.

 

I wouldn't use the 4.1 on anything. Use either the 1.3 (with knock sensor) or the 3.2.

 

To run the 1.3 (or 4.1) on a XU10J4 you'd have to change the inlet cam (and add cam seal) and use an XU9J4 thermostat housing. You'd also have to block the oil return hole in the side of the head.

 

That all seems like a backward step to me. Why not just use the 3.2 system with a 1.9L or GTi6 inlet manifold?

[jonand 0]

There was an XU9J4 and XU9J4Z with Motronic 1.3, but never an XU10J4. At least I've never seen a 2L engine with an AFM. All Motronic 1.3 have an AFM and a dizzy.

 

I wouldn't use the 4.1 on anything. Use either the 1.3 (with knock sensor) or the 3.2.

 

To run the 1.3 (or 4.1) on a XU10J4 you'd have to change the inlet cam (and add cam seal) and use an XU9J4 thermostat housing. You'd also have to block the oil return hole in the side of the head.

 

That all seems like a backward step to me. Why not just use the 3.2 system with a 1.9L or GTi6 inlet manifold?

 

Dont you mean use the 3.2 with a 2.0L or GTI6 inlet manifold or am I missing something. I am using the 3.2 now (on the XU10J4) but wanted an easy changeover if I need to use the XU9J4 - but to be honest I have had so many problems that I have now bought some R1 carbs and will be getting a mapped ignition system to go with them - this should give much easier interchange between the engines as it will use common components i.e. TPS on carbs, coil pack, crank sensor.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Jon