Best Gear Box For A Mi16.

[holemi 0]

ive just checked in a review that compares the bx to the mi16 ( dug it out because i got told off by kris ) , and the reason that it reaches 60 in second and the slow lardy mi16 doesnt is because the rev limiter is set 500 rpm higher ( source- what car ? , road test reprint sept 1988) and not because it has a different box !! sorted

[petert 586]

to add another twist to the arguement , we are just starting our first mi conversion and have 3 gearboxes , a 1.9 gti , a bx 16v and a mi16 405 box...so by popular opinion the 1.9gti box is out ...so do we go for the bx box or the mi box??? , which i beleive to be different gearing ( 2nd car be reached in 60, ) , the car is pure track day car ...and can we use the 205 gti driveshafts with any of the mentioned boxes??? cheers les

 

THe Mi and Bx16V boxes are identical. If it's a "pure track day car", take the diff out of either the BX or Mi box and stick it in the 1.9 box. Yes you can reuse the 205 driveshafts.

[holemi 0]

sorry to plead ignorance here but what effect will it have on the performance of the car in comparison to the normal 1.9 box???

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Which model year 1.6 has the close ratio box??

 

are they all having the same ratio no matter pre1988 or 1988onward (facelifted)?

 

1st = 3.251

2nd = 1.850

3rd = 1.360

4th = 1.069

5th = 0.865

f/d = 4.063

??? please correct me if i am wrong, thanks.

 

i might have something wrong with the info i have received on 405Mi1.9 gearing, would someone be kind to correct my data?

 

1st = 2.370

2nd = 1.850

3rd = 1.280

4th = 0.960

5th = 0.750

f/d = 4.420

 

thanks.

I'm not sure what years the close ratio box was fitted to the GTi but its ratio's are apparently;

1st = 3.308

2nd = 1.882

3rd = 1.280

4th = 0.969

5th = 0.757

FD = 4.063

These ratios are almost identical to the 405 1.9 SRi gearbox which I currently have fitted to my car. I think fifth is to long, 4th is exactly the same as the 1.9 gearbox though.

 

Your 405 1.9Mi ratio's are right according to the front of the Haynes manual but changed on the Be3 gearbox to 2.92.

take the diff out of either the BX or Mi box and stick it in the 1.9 box

You need to strip the gearbox for this to change the final drive for it to work & be effective afaik.

sorry to plead ignorance here but what effect will it have on the performance of the car in comparison to the normal 1.9 box???

Lower ratios so the car will pull through teh gears quicker giving a lower ultimate top speed but it'll get there a lot faster.

 

Graham.

[Pug_101 0]

How about the 2.0L 16V Citroen ZX gearbox. Any difference? Any Good?

[engine killer 6]

Lower ratios so the car will pull through teh gears quicker giving a lower ultimate top speed but it'll get there a lot faster.

 

my explaination of gearing is, it is a media to deliver/present the power and torque of your engine. for example, if you want to hit 130mph at the end of the straight and engine peaks at 7,000rpm, better to have a 5th and f/d combination which just gives 130mph @7,000rpm. the rest of the gears should be as close as possible and the interval should be linear in reverse order as drag (load against speed) increase.

from 4th to 5th should have the least interval and 1st to 2nd have the largest value. the higher the final drive ratio the fastest you deliver all torque/power. but too fast to deliver the power (esp. 1st gear) before your tyres get enough grip results in wheel spinning.

 

if my calculation and figures are right for 405Mi16 2.0, it's not designed as peugeot used to for a gearbox. 1st = 2.370, 2nd = 1.850, 3rd = 1.280, 4th = 0.960, 5th = 0.750 and f/d = 4.420, interval 1>2 = 1,558rpm, 2>3rd = 2,188rpm, 3>4 = 1,775rpm, 4>5 = 1,553rpm. with this gearing, 1st seems a bit long but 2nd is just too short. 3rd and 4th are about the same as a 1.6's 3rd and 4th, and 5th is nice and long for highway cruising.

 

any comment or correction?

[SPGTi 2]

sorry to plead ignorance here but what effect will it have on the performance of the car in comparison to the normal 1.9 box???

 

 

For me the big advantage is having 5 useable gears when road rallying. With a std 1.9 box I was effectively only use gears 1 to 4 and quite often you would be either bouncing of the rev limiter or if you changed up a gear then you weren't quite in the sweet spot. Now that I have changed to a 1.9 with Mi final drive I use all 5 gears so always seem to have the correct gear. The downside is that I have a indicated top speed of 105mph hitting the limiter in 5th but that should never be a problem for me. The other thing that I was surprised at was how little the revs drop when going through the gears, it is very easy to stay in the powerband and the car just pulls and pulls all the way to the limiter in 5th.

 

My car is a 1.9 8v slighted modded. I also have an ATB diff which helps with getting the power down.

 

Remember though that you cannot just swap the diff and crown wheel, you also need to change the pinion, which is a full gearbox strip down.

 

There was a thread a few months ago with a link to a guide on how to do this.

 

Steve

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

How about the 2.0L 16V Citroen ZX gearbox. Any difference? Any Good?

Not to certain about the ZX 2.0 16v but I noticed last week in the ZX Haynes manual that it has a different first (3.455) & final drive (3.750) listed but not exactly a model specific beakdown.

 

Graham.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

ive just checked in a review that compares the bx to the mi16 ( dug it out because i got told off by kris ) , and the reason that it reaches 60 in second and the slow lardy mi16 doesnt is because the rev limiter is set 500 rpm higher ( source- what car ? , road test reprint sept 1988) and not because it has a different box !! sorted

What review was that? Because it's wrong. I know they have different ecu numbers but I bet the rev limit is the same.

[petert 586]

Not to certain about the ZX 2.0 16v but I noticed last week in the ZX Haynes manual that it has a different first (3.455) & final drive (3.750) listed but not exactly a model specific beakdown.

 

Graham.

 

I thought the Xantia 2L 16V Citroen final drive was 4.7:1 to make up for the 185x65/15 tyres.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

Hehe a 4.7 to 1 final drive?! Add that to a 1.9 gearbox!

[holemi 0]

What review was that? Because it's wrong. I know they have different ecu numbers but I bet the rev limit is the same.

as i said , its in what car, road test sept 1988.....admit it , the bx engine hurls the bx16v along a lot quicker than the mi 405 !1

[Pug_101 0]

Looking at the gearbox calculators I would choose Mi16 with 1.6 final drive. Not quite as low as the 1.6L box in the 1st 2nd gears (less wheel spin), but higher geared in 5th than the 1.9L box. Also nice gaps between each gear.

of course this would be a road setup.

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

as i said , its in what car, road test sept 1988.....admit it , the bx engine hurls the bx16v along a lot quicker than the mi 405 !1

No it doesn't, there's bugger all difference unless you count 0.1 of a second quicker to 60, and 0.1 of a second quicker quarter mile as a big difference. (Both tests done by Autocar.)

[holemi 0]

0.1 secs ??? bx 0-60 in 7.6 secs and mi 16 0-60 in 8.2 secs ...sounds more like just over half a second to me !!! ( btw depends on which mag , source you look at for figures)

[KRISKARRERA 2 1 Cars]

It's not gonna be that much in any accurate test, the weight difference between to the 2 cars isn't big enough for that. The 309 GTI16 is about 100kgs lighter than the bx and has a 0-62 time is 7.8 seconds and that's official because it's from the brochure. Thing is though even if a bx did 0-60 in 5 seconds I still wouldn't have one for the obvious reasons.

 

Anyway, stop being a muppet and going off topic!

Edited May 31, 2006 by KRISKARRERA

[holemi 0]

It's not gonna be that much in any accurate test, the weight difference between to the 2 cars isn't big enough for that. The 309 GTI16 is about 100kgs lighter than the bx and has a 0-62 time is 7.8 seconds and that's official because it's from the brochure. Thing is though even if a bx did 0-60 in 5 seconds I still wouldn't have one for the obvious reasons.

 

Anyway, stop being a muppet and going off topic!

sorry mum!!!